#90 - Tiffany Chen: Empathy, Education, and Efficacy in Social Media

In this week's interview episode, we're joined by Tiffany Chen, the owner and founder of Pawsistant, LLC, a business dedicated to helping dog professionals grow their businesses via social media and content marketing. 

In this episode, you’re going to hear Emily and Tiffany talk about:

• Why social media marketing isn’t usually the best thing to try to DIY
• The importance of meeting our learners where they’re at
• How to distill complex concepts into clear and simple messages
• Self-care on social media

You can find the full episode show notes here.  

If you have a dog that struggles with separation anxiety, know that you aren't alone. Our upcoming separation anxiety webinar will teach you foundation skills for teaching comfort home alone, how to know it's working, the puzzle piece that most people are missing, and so much more.

Join today at petharmonytraining.com/separation.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Tiffany: I think for me because like I said, like, I feel like there's so many parallels with like, enrichment, dog training, social media, running a business. Like, I feel like the one thing that I wish everybody knew is to like, know that, like, you are an individual and you are so unique. So like, somebody else's advice is not going to work for you, somebody's strategy is not going to work for you, like whether you're like, you know, observing the individual in front of you, or observing your business, or observing your client, like just know that they are in a unique situation, so that you really have to do the things that apply to them. And, it's okay if like somebody else's strategy or enrichment idea doesn't work for you, because like, you're going to be able to figure out something else that works for you…or your pet.

[00:00:54] Allie: Welcome to Enrichment for the Real World, the podcast devoted to improving the quality of life of pets and their people through enrichment. We are your hosts, Allie Bender...

[00:01:12] Emily: ...and I'm Emily Strong...

[00:01:14] Allie: ...and we are here to challenge and expand your view of what enrichment is, what enrichment can be, and what enrichment can do for you and the animals in your lives. Let's get started.

Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Enrichment for the Real World, and I want to thank you for rating, reviewing, and subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts.

The voice you heard at the beginning of today's episode was Tiffany Chen. Tiffany is the owner and founder of Pawsistant LLC, a business dedicated to helping dog professionals grow their businesses via social media and content marketing.

She loves to create educational content using her creative skills, and her mission is to help educate pet parents with credible information from certified pet professionals. Tiffany graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Communication Studies from the University of Las Vegas, Nevada.

Y'all. Tiffany has been managing our Pet Harmony social media for years now at this point, and I cannot say enough good things about her, not only from the social media marketing standpoint and just her job, but I also love how enthusiastic she is about teaching pet parents, and, honestly, how good she is at teaching pet parents. She has really helped me be a better educator to people en masse, and so I am so excited that she agreed to be on the podcast and that you get to hear from her today. In this episode, you're going to hear Emily and Tiffany talk about why social media marketing isn't usually the best thing to try to DIY (don't I know it), the importance of meeting our learners where they're at, how to distill complex concepts into clear and simple messages, and self care on social media. All right, here it is, today's episode, Tiffany Chen: Empathy, Education, and Efficacy in Social Media.

[00:03:06] Emily: All right. Tell us your name, your pronouns, and your pets.

[00:03:10] Tiffany: Hello. Um, So my name is Tiffany, my pronouns are she/her and I have a mixed breed dog, he's four years old and his name is Sihtric.

[00:03:21] Emily: Sihtric, that's so cute. I love that. All right. Tell us your story and how you got to where you are.

[00:03:27] Tiffany: Thanks. So I got Sihtric, so Sihtric is like my first dog ever. My first puppy, pandemic puppy, got him back in 2020. And so, I was totally new to dog training, had like literally no clue about dogs or anything related to training at all. And one of the things that I was really surprised about when I got him was that like, there was no like, one right way to do it or something.

Cause I remember I would like, how do I potty train him? How do I teach him his name? And then like any other person would do, I just went on Google to do that, and I found like so much conflicting information. And then at the same time, I had my friends, my families, my colleagues, like they were all giving me like all really, just mixed up conflicting information. And I remember being like, who am I supposed to talk to? Like, who am I supposed to listen to? to know what is like the right thing to do here?

And I think I came across like an article that talked about like, positive reinforcement using treats, being kind, and that really, like resonated with me and I was like, yes, like, this is exactly, like what I want to do because I want my dog to be my best friend. Like, I really want us to have like this really close relationship. Like that's why I got a puppy in the first place, and so, glad I found that article. So then I went to like YouTube, I think too, and I went down like a really deep, like rabbit hole of like, all the things that like, roads related to positive reinforcement, all the tricks that I could teach, what treats to use, like, just everything of related to that. And so, that's how I kind of like started training my puppy.

And, eventually I decided like…oh, I'm going to start like an Instagram page to like document our journey together to like show everybody, like how cool this puppy is. And I eventually found like other positive reinforcement trainers, which was like really cool because at that time I was, low key kind of like embarrassed to use positive reinforcement and to like train with treats because nobody I knew did it, right? Like everybody was like, “oh, you got to punish the puppy.” “You got to like…” I don't know, like “rub his nose into his pee.” And like, “you shouldn't use treats cause it'll spoil him.” 

And like, so I like never wanted anybody to know that I was like, using treats to train him. So like I remember I would like be so embarrassed to wear a treat pouch. I would like stuff all the treats into like my hoodie pocket and like secretly like deliver it to him. I was just like, I didn't want anybody to see. Cause I was like, man, nobody understands. Like, I feel like. Just, yeah, nobody gets it. So then when I started finding all of these like positive reinforcement trainers on Instagram and they're talking about like, “yeah, use treats, use food!”

I'm like, let's normalize treat pouches and all of this stuff. I was, I felt so seen. I felt like, oh my gosh, I found my people. Like, I'm not the only person who doesn't want to punish my puppy. I'm not the only person who wants to use treats and build this relationship with my puppy. Like, there's a whole community of people online, like, it's so cool.

So like, I think after like a couple months, at that time I was feeling really like unsatisfied at my corporate job, and I was like, had this feeling inside of me where I'm like…I’m meant to do something bigger, meant to do something more fulfilling, and so I'm like exploring what are the options here.

I found like a virtual assistance course online to do just to like, maybe like learn about um, what are the some of the things I can do to like maybe start my own business. And, like inside that course, they talked about like, you need to find like a niche, like something to specialize in. And like, I'm like “positive reinforcement dog training businesses,” Like right off the bat, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like exactly what I want to specialize in. And then, so like, I think I, was scared again to do that. Cause I'm like, “I don't know if there's a lot of R plus trainers or not, should I just do like dog training? But I don't want to just do dog training…” And then after like talking to somebody like a branding strategist or something, they were like, “no, you should totally do like what your gut is telling you.” So then, I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to give this a go, give Pawsistant a go.

And then, so then at the same time when that was all happening one of my friends that I met like on Instagram, she was like, Oh, “I just…I just became a certified dog trainer.”

And so I was like, “hey, like, would you be okay if I gave you some, like an Instagram strategy, some branding tips and see like how, how it does for you, and if it's good, let me know, maybe write me a testimonial and then like, let me know if you think I should start this business for sure or not.” So after we did all that, like the next day she came back and she was like, “Tif, you should definitely start your business. Like, this is so helpful.” And then like one month later, she tells me that like, she used my strategies and tips and then she got like booked out with like an online class. And she's like, she was also new in her business. So I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is incredible. 

And then, like, now that I'm, like, thinking back on it, I'm, like, I feel like all of those pieces just, like, came together at the right time. So, that's when I was, like, “okay, I'm gonna start trying to start doing this just as, like, a weekend hobby…” And then I think maybe six months after I started that I got enough, like, clients where I was able to quit my corporate job. And then I've been doing Pawsistant like, full time ever since then.

[00:09:49] Emily: I did not realize, even though we've been working with you for like two years, right? Has it been two years already? Yes.

[00:09:55] Tiffany: Maybe more, maybe, yeah.

[00:09:58] Emily: Maybe more. Oh, I think it's been closer to three years, actually, now that I think about it. I didn't realize how new this journey was for you, but I'm glad we got in on the ground floor.

[00:10:10] Tiffany: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think when Pet Harmony, when I had that initial meeting with you guys, I was like, I'm fully booked, cause this is still my side hustle. And then I remember like two months later I quit my corporate job, and you guys were one of the first people I was like, “hey, like, are you, are you like still trying to work with me…cause I'm ready now, like I could totally take you on now.” So yeah.

[00:10:36] Emily: Now that you say that I do remember that happening. Because on our ends Allie had realized a while before that, that we really needed to hire a social media manager for many reasons. And she was like, “I found this woman named Tiffany, like she does great work. I really want to work with her.” And then I remember now that she was like, “oh, she's not available”…and then a couple months later, she's like, “she's available!” We were like, “yay!”

[00:11:05] Tiffany: Yeah, I was, yeah, I remember cause I was like cause I knew you guys, like I was reading Canine Enrichment for the Real World at the time and I was like, I can't believe the authors reached out to me like, whaaaat? So I was like, I, like, I, they have to be the first people that I reach out to

[00:11:20] Emily: I'm glad you did because I think you know that we love you and please don't ever leave us. Yeah, so this explains, like you are really, really incredible at your job and I, and you are, kind of embody something that I, really feel strongly about, which is people who come to not even necessarily specifically dog training, but just animal welfare industries in general, from another industry.

A lot of people have self doubt about that, like what you were describing of like, “can I do this, should I do this?” And a lot of people that I talked to her like, “well, it's different for you and Allie, because you've been involved in animal welfare since you were children, and I'm just now getting into it as [a however old the person is who says this to us].”

And people say this to us all the time, and my response that is always like, “no.” Like, “please do it. Do it. We need you because you are going to bring knowledge and skills to the table that we don't have because we've been doing this since we were children.” Like we have, I did other, I did other things, and I came back to this industry with skills from those other things.

But people, I think people think like you can only be valuable or have something to share or offer, if you've been doing it since you were like in diapers, and that's just not true. Like you're a really good example of how you bring your skills from another industry in and, and benefit the industry.

So I'm just really, I, I love, I love, not only how good you are at your job, but also how you are really focused on really getting to know your client, and their voice, and their personalities, and you'll, tell us, you'll send us an email and be like, “take this video of yourself pouring tea…or showing your books,” or whatever.

And I'll be like, “okay.” And then like, I see the post cause I, for our listeners who don't know, I copy edit all of our, our social media posts. I'll see them and I'll be like, “damn, Tiffany…”  like you, you get us like you get us like, as you, you are very good at representing our voices, which is not necessarily a given with social media marketing in general. So, you are, you're really, really good.

I think a lot of people think they can just DIY, but for most folks, that's actually a terrible idea. And it was certainly a terrible idea for us because I hated it. I just, I hated it. And, and, I would, come in and mask and put all this emotional energy into like being enthusiastic, but the reality is if you don't love it and you're not going to be good at it.

And I didn't, I did not love it. And, and we didn't know what we were doing because I don't, I'm not, I don't have my finger on the pulse, right? So we, we didn't know what the trends were. We didn't know how to make the trends work for us. We didn't know how to represent ourselves succinctly in these little kind of sound bites and little video clips. And, and you do all those things so fluently. And, and that was a real eye opener for us. Obviously we recognize that we needed a social media marketing manager, and also knowing that we needed you and seeing exactly why we needed you were two very different things. So it's still a revelation, right? 

So, can you talk about why it's a bad idea for most of us, most folks in our industry to try to DIY social media marketing and what it takes to do it well.

[00:14:51] Tiffany: Yeah well, first of all, like, thank you for all, all the kind words, all the R plus. I love it. And I love with working with you guys too. 

And okay, so to your question, I think when it comes to like, DIY anything, like, not even with social media, but with like, anything in general, I feel like, there's a, there's like an aspect of, like, sometimes you're just doing it, but there's no, like, strategy behind it, or there's no, like, you don't know if you're being, like, truly effective or not. You're just like, doing it.

So, like, for instance, like, I, I feel like I see a lot of maybe, like, trainers, they just think that Instagram is all about just like posting pictures, or saying, like, “sign up for my class,” or “work with me,” or something like that, but there's really, you do have to like, have a strategy behind it. There needs to be like intention of like what you're posting. It's not just like posting a meme or posting like a funny video in hopes of like getting viral, and you're going to blow up overnight, or something like that. So, that's why I think it might be a bad idea if people are DIYing it without having any, like any, yeah, any intention behind it.

You know, and I also like, have to remember, like, there is a lot of like, maybe newbie dog trainers who are hoping to do this and they, they don't have the budget to hire someone. So they do have to DIY, and then that's when I still think that it's It's always good to try to invest into like learning about it before you just go and like waste all your time doing it, whether if it's like investing in, speaking with a consultant, or like investing into like a coaching call or, or maybe like a course or something, just so you have an idea of what you're doing. I feel like a lot of people see Instagram and they're just like, “oh, I just have to post pictures!” And it's really, it's really not that simple sometimes, right?

So your other question is what does it take to do it? And for me, I always think about doing things when I'm creating posts and whatnot, I'm always thinking about it from like the consumer point of view. How, and how do I personally like to consume content? What is it, what are the types of posts that I like to see on the internet? What things resonate with me? And so, I think a lot of people like that's a good tip for people who are maybe trying to DIY is like try to really think about what it is that resonates with you. Because if you're making a post and you think that like, and you see it and you're like, “oh, I don't think that I would read this whole thing.” Then maybe somebody else won't. So that's how I always try to come from it. Is, I always try to also bring like my pet parent perspective into it, how do I like to learn personally? When I'm, when I'm making content.

[00:17:49] Emily: So, I love that. And also I'm going to share my ulterior motive, which I guess isn't an ulterior motive if I just own it. But I see a lot of parallels between how you approach social media marketing and how we in general tend to approach behavior change or, or just working with our animals, or providing enrichment, or whatever.

In that, a lot of times people are like, “I can do this myself, I've watched some videos on YouTube, I've read some articles, I got this,” like, I know how to, to address this problem. And exactly what you said, like, you can see what people are doing and try to mimic that, and you may get somewhere with that, but if you don't understand the why of what they're doing, and the strategy behind it, and what they're looking for, then you're not, you're going to struggle to have as much impact and efficacy as, like the person who has the strategy knows what to look for, knows what they're paying attention to. So, that's one thing that I think I see a lot of strong parallels between what you do, and pet parents who are just trying to like DIY behavior change.

And then the other, the other aspect of what you said that I see a lot of parallels about is being able to put yourself in the pet parent's perspective and say, if I were in their shoes, “what would resonate with me? What would help me? What would support me?” Instead of thinking of it from the perspective of, “what am I trying to sell or what am I trying to get people to do? Or how am I trying to get people to care about me?” The answer is learner, learner centered focus. Like focus on what your learners need and what they want and what they resonate with and what they're going to get out of it.

And I think that's very, very true for not just when we work with animals and thinking about what does our animal need and what, what support do they need and what are they getting out of this and what is their experience? But also when we work with clients, what do our clients need and what support do our clients need and what will they resonate with?

So I think you, what makes you good at your job, includes some universal skills that have broad applicability to pet parents and pet professionals alike. And I just really wanted to point that out because it's not, nobody's, nobody is a magician that just has these like intrinsic magical qualities. You have skill sets that other people can learn from and benefit from, even if they're not social media.

[00:20:20] Tiffany: No, yeah, I love that. And I, I honestly being in this role, I'm always feeling like there's so many parallels between like the dog training world, social media marketing, running a business, and then like pet parent life. I'm always like, Oh my gosh, like all of these skills, like they all overlap. It's just, it's just life skills in general.

[00:20:42] Emily: It really is. It really is. There's, there are like universal skills that can be applied in, in many, many aspects of our life, possibly every aspect of our life, but I hesitate to speak in absolutes. But yeah, there, there's just so much, like you said, like life skill that is applicable in so many places. And when we can shift our mindset and acquire those skills,it helps us in lots of different arenas. 

So, so let's talk about the additional complications of running social media for animal welfare and behavior fields, because social media is fueled by sound bites and pithy little quotes and memes and all of that is dangerous territory when we're talking about behavioral health, since behavioral health and behavior in general is so complex, and there's such complicated systems and there's always a risk of overstating or oversimplifying to the point that we can actually cause harm. And that's actually one of the reasons that I really hated doing social media before we hired you because…oh, and I guess, it's also one of the reasons that I really sucked at it because let's be real, brevity, is not my strong suit. But one of the things that very quickly made me join Team Tiffany and was like immediately fangirling over you was your ability for me to like info dump at you and being like, “these are the things that I want to say, and these are the things that I really care about, but there's all these little complexities,” and I would send you like six paragraphs, and you'd be like, yeah…bop bop bop, here's a meme…that like, really beautifully encapsulates what I said. And I was like, “damn, those some skills,” and I do not have those skills, so, so how do you do that? How do you distill down the info dumps that I give you? And Allie and Ellen, although they're more succinct than I am. But how do you distill these complex messages down that we give you into these like little sound bites and pithy little quotes and memes and stuff? How do you do that? And maintain the integrity of the message.

[00:22:50] Tiffany: Yes first of all, I wanted to say you're not alone in that. I feel like with seeing a lot, working with a lot of dog trainers they all just like have a lot they want to say. And I'm always trying to remind them, like, hey, it's social media, like, people have really, really short attention spans, so we can't say all of this, like, it needs to be, like, broken down.

So yeah, you're not alone there. A lot of people are like,” well, how can I, how can I break down these complex messages?” So I think, like, I think it does take a lot of like experience and practice. I probably, if I look back at it, like our older posts, I probably wasn't doing as good of a job back then when I first started. But for me again, like I always try to bring into like my pet parent perspective and, and the, the consumer perspective and like, I know for one, that I low key have a really short attention span when I'm scrolling on on social media, so like if it's too long to read and I'm not like a hundred percent into the topic, I probably will just scroll that over. And one of my goals as, as like social media manager is like, I want to make sure that like, I'm enticing people, but also not overwhelming them. I think that's a big one for me. I'm like, I don't want this to sound super complicated where nobody's going to understand it.

And then I'm always trying to speak in layman's terms in a way, because I think you know, in the dog trainer world, we have a problem with being like too technical sometimes, even if it doesn't sound technical to us. Like, for instance, like enrichment can sound really technical. Like I remember talking to like some of my friends about it and they're like, Oh, what is that? Like, they don't understand enrichment. They don't understand the terms like positive reinforcement. So, I always keep that in the back of my mind is like with the average, like, pet parent know this, like, would my friend know this, who has no knowledge of dog training. So I, I always think about that when I'm making content. And then I'm also, when it comes to, like, breaking down the, like, complex, like, messages about, like, behavior change and stuff like that. 

Also, like, I'll also, like, throw in, like, disclaimers in there just to, like, tell them straight up like, “Hey, this is, this is a really like complex subject and I cannot talk about everything in one post. So if you have any questions, like, let me know,” or, I'll always say like, this is like something that you shouldn't DIY, so you should always reach out to a professional just making sure that I have that in the post somewhere to people like, yeah, this is, this is a really serious topic or something like that.

So, and also like making sure that like, I'm, I'm covering all the bases of like, I don't want somebody to take this information and, and misinterpret it. And then like, maybe they like, do something bad on their end, but yeah. And then if it comes to like the memes and stuff like that, I don't know. I feel like maybe it's because I consume a lot of content that like I just know like what is what is trending, or what is funny to me. Because if it's if it's not funny to me then I probably wouldn't wouldn't put it into a meme.

[00:26:16] Emily: Yeah. You are really good at taking messages that we are like, we really want to focus on this right now, and you find a way to make it really funny. And that's, there are many, many times when I'm doing the copy editing where I'm just like belly laughing and my partner will text me and be like, “you copy editing social media?” I'm like, “yes, yes, I am.” Because it's, you crack me up with your, with your posts. So, so yeah, I think, and again, that is a really broadly applicable thing of like, what is the, what is the core message and how can we deliver it in a way that. people will actually care about because it relates to them or it's funny to them or it's interesting to them.

And, and yes, you are absolutely right that like any profession can get bogged down by its own lingo. And the lingo is really helpful when you're talking to other professionals so that you can sort of like, it's a shortcut for referring to complex concepts, but it's not helpful when you're trying to use professional lingo with people outside the profession.

And the thing that's really hard is remembering what is lingo. If you are so deeply immersed in your profession, it's hard to remember what is and is not common knowledge. So, it's really nice having somebody like you on our team who can be like, “I know y'all think that's a simple term, but it really, really isn't.” “It just seems simple to you because you've been in this industry and you're just immersed in this and you use that term 40 times a week, but like the rest of the world doesn't.” 

And that is, that is so helpful to remind us. Like, to meet our learners where they're at, and to use language that makes sense to them and resonates with them because a lot of times I think we can be unintentionally obtuse, and, and that doesn't, that doesn't land with the people we're trying to connect with. So that's a really helpful reminder to be aware of where our learner is and meeting them there, where they are, not where we want to take them. So I appreciate you.

[00:28:25] Tiffany: Yeah, no, I really like how you said that because it really is trying to meet the learner in their journey and, and like, I'm always like, picturing, like, if I'm making posts for social media, I'm always picturing, like, what if it's like the average person who doesn't know anything and they're trying to learn.

And then that's also a good tip for, for the pet professionals listening is like, if you're making, if you're making social media posts, always try to think about, like, the person that you're trying to speak to, and you think about, are they somebody who's like, completely new to this, or are they maybe somebody who's already into the R plus training, and, and they're they're reading the books and stuff like that, but there may be needing a little additional help. That's actually, like, something that I, I just talked about with somebody else, so I like how you phrased it.

[00:29:17] Emily: Yeah. I mean, that kind of gave me an idea because I loved earlier in our conversation. I didn't call it out at the time, but I'm going to call it out now. I love that you were being mindful of, of accessibility and saying, for people who are new and they're just starting their journey as a behavior professional, they, they can't afford a social media manager, but there are some tools that I can give them to get started, and we're going to prioritize progress over perfection, so you can, you can do a good enough job that you can grow your business enough so that you can afford somebody. But I love this kind of ongoing theme in your awareness of accessibility, and, and just remembering that, like, we have you to tell us, like, “Y'all sit down, you're, you're speaking over your audience's heads.”

And so that is actually another good, like maybe DIY tip, is if you don't have a Tiffany in your life, then like grab a friend or a family member, and show them your posts before you post them and be like, “does this make sense to you? Do you know what I'm saying? Does it resonate with you? Does it land?” So you can find somebody in your life who isn't deeply immersed in the lingo of our profession and kind of test run your posts by them, or even not even just like handouts, training plans, like everything that you create, run it by a lay person in your life so that they can help you be aware of the ways in which you may be lost in your own lingo, right?

[00:30:46] Tiffany: That is such a good tip. And I actually like, I do ask my partner, sometimes. I'm like, help asking him to help me double check my work because sometimes I feel like the more I do this, the more I'm starting to be like, really deep into the industry and I might even like, get caught up on that mistake of being too technical, so.

[00:31:06] Emily: Yeah, it's funny because so, way back at the beginning when we first started this podcast, we had on a friend/mentor/colleague of mine, Eddie Fernandez, and he used the term “contingency.” If I had not just had a conversation with a friend who did not know what contingency meant, and I had to define it for them, I would not even have clocked that as something that we needed to pause and define.

And because I just had that conversation with my friend the day before I interviewed Eddie, when Eddie used that conversation, I was like, hey, this is a 60 dollar word, and I like, you could see the surprise on his face, and he was like, “oh, well then I'm about to use a 6, 000 word.” And it's not because he's a snob who likes talking down to people. It's because he's so immersed in his field and what he does that he forgets what is and isn't called common knowledge like we all do. 

But that just really stuck out to me because I use the word contingency all the time. And so, I also forgot that that was not a word that everybody knows and, and I honestly would not have been able to ask Eddie to pause and define if I hadn't just had that conversation with a friend. So, we're all, we're all steeped in our bubble, right? And it helps to have a friend or family member outside the bubble to be like, “hey, does this make sense outside of my bubble? I don't know. I need an objective perspective.”

[00:32:26] Tiffany: Yeah, for sure. Cause you just like, cause when you're in it, you're just in it and it's hard to see.

[00:32:32] Emily: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well, I, I love that and thank you for being that gentle reminder in our life to do that. 

One of the other reasons that I hated doing our social media before we hired you is because, let's be real, the internet is toxic AF, and I have a very low threshold of tolerance for the catastrophizing that happens on the internet, and bad faith comments, and by which I mean, because again, this is a good example of I'm constantly steeped in talking about good faith, bad faith. So I'll define, a good faith conversation is one where we're approaching with curiosity and a genuine desire to understand each other's perspective and a willingness to change our beliefs based on new information we receive. A bad faith conversation is the absence of those things, not curious, not interested in really understanding, not interested in changing opinions or beliefs. So, I can now define that because we just had that conversation to remind me.

So yeah, I struggle, I struggle being patient and I'm working on it in therapy, I realized this is a me issue. But I struggle having patience for catastrophizing, and bad faith comments, and the kind of like casual cruelty that just is so rampant on the internet. And when we are a recipient of those things, you're so great about bringing them to us and being like, “hey team, how do we want to handle this?” I really love that. And also you're, you're even better at taking my entirely blunt replies, and then turning them into reasonable responses, when a response is necessary, because we have deemed several times as a group that like, don't feed the trolls. A response is not going to serve anybody in this situation. So, there are also times when we as a team agree that no response is the best response. But when we as a team agree that a response is a good idea, and I just give you a very blunt reply of like, “here's what I would say in this situation.” You do such a beautiful job of turning those into responses that would actually, actually are helpful. 

So I have, I have a two part question for you about this topic. First is: how do you do that? How do you, how, how do you take my salt and turn it into sugar? It's alchemy.

[00:34:53] Tiffany: And it's so funny because you guys, you guys are so like good at letting me know how you're feeling too, and I love how we're just like communicating that like, hey, like, I'm not, like, my threshold is not super good right now or something like that. But I think maybe it is because I am, like that third person or like that middleman. So like, I'm like, okay, I'm just going to try to like take the pieces, and try to keep it as neutral as possible. Because I also don't want further disagreements or anything like that. And then, the same time, I'm always thinking about how, yeah, there's a lot of like, people who might not be kind on the internet but, I've realized that most of the time it's like more about how they personally feel about something instead of like the information that we're sharing.

If we truly feel like the information that we're sharing is maybe like, I don't know, harmful or something, which is like, really not like, never really happens. But if it's like, misinterpreted, or we're miscommunicating about something, and I feel like we'll always own up to that. We'll always like, own up to our mistakes and say like, “hey, we're going to take down the post” or, “hey, we didn't mean to say it this way.” But when it comes to like dealing with the negative comments, I, yeah, always try to come from a place of like kindness and also knowing that like, maybe this person really just doesn't know any better. Maybe they're having a bad day. Just putting myself in their shoes, and really like giving them the benefit of the doubt.

And also, like, there are people, unfortunately, out there who are, who are mean for no reason, and then that's something that I learned from you, Emily, is like, do you, does that even, do, do they even need a response? Like, maybe they're just maybe they just want to leave this comment and, and they just, they don't even are, are not even open to conversation, and sometimes you can really like just tell right away. And then sometimes we'll just like, not even, not even deal with it.

[00:36:58] Emily: Yeah, I think you brought up several good things and one is differentiating between being open to feedback, even if that feedback isn't delivered in a pleasant way, versus recognizing when it's not actually feedback. 

So, there have been times when we have posted something that needed a qualifier. Like, the, here's a,” this is a quote from an episode and also you really need to listen to the episode because it's going to provide context for this quote.” However, we see that people are upset about it because they haven't listened to the episode yet, and taken out of context, I can see how this would make you feel this way. So even though the feedback was not delivered in a, in a pleasant way, the feedback was valid in that we needed to provide more context for the quote, or there's a time when people were like, “oh, this could cause harm.” And it's like, well, I think everybody in animal welfare could stand to learn about risk assessment, so like that's not on us, that like risk assessment is a skill that like in general our, our, our community needs to learn. However, we can add a qualifier that helps people understand that we're not claiming that this strategy is going to be right for every single individual, that it can be beneficial for some individuals in some context.

So again, like that feedback wasn't pleasant, but it helped us to see like, oh, we need to adjust how we're communicating so that we're, we're being more clear in our messaging. And that's, that is one thing. And that's, it takes spoons, it takes bandwidth to process that and, and deal with that. But it's a reasonable thing that we should do as content creators.

And then there are the comments that they're not, they're not interested in learning more. They're not, it's, it's not a reasonable response. Like you said, it's, it's more about what they're going through, and their own baggage, or needs. And in that case, it's like, well, my friend, I wish you the best on your journey. And also like, it's super, super, not my circus, not my monkeys to be, to be engaging with this. So yeah, I, I do think that is a really good point. Is that, it is important for us to listen to unpleasant feedback if it will help us be clearer in our messaging and also that's not how a lot of internet comments actually function. So, so yes, I, I really appreciate you developing that awareness of like, this isn't about us. And so, like, I can just wish you the best and also not take this personally.

But that leads to the second part of my two part question, which is processing that stuff takes spoons. It takes bandwidth. It requires emotional labor from you, it requires you to filter what is the message that I need to hear from this? Is there a message I need to hear versus what is just internet garbage that is not healthy? And, and that is really, really draining, right? And we know that this is a, a problem with social media that it, it does adversely affect mental health.

So, you are on the front lines for us of, of, of taking the brunt of that assault on mental health. So, how do you take care of yourself? How do you protect your mental health? Since that is, it's literally your job to, to process that for us. Because yeah, I, I don't know, I could not do what you do, and I want to know how you do it.

[00:40:30] Tiffany: Yeah, it's funny because I really feel like I learned about like meeting needs and completing the stress cycle from you guys. Cause you guys are always talking about it in your content. And I remember like you always recommend the book Burnout, which I've actually like picked up and read and which talks about like completing your stress cycle. And even if you've gone through something stressful, even if it's over, like it's not truly over unless you, maybe like shake it off or something, do something to, to complete that cycle. So, that's actually something that I've learned from you guys.

And then another thing is because being on social media, like, I'm literally on my phone all the time. So I will definitely set, like, these boundaries with myself where, like, on the weekend, I'm going to try to limit going on social media just for like my own mental health. I, I try to not go on there, not try to not do like any work as much as possible when it's like my days off.

And then, I've also like been on like my own self care journey of like trying to figure out the things that like I feel like works for me in meeting my needs. Because like for the longest time I've always like thought, self care is, “oh, I got to work out. I got to take bubble baths. I got to like, exercise and meditate.” And like, I remember like trying that for like, so long and like not, like feeling like instead of like looking forward to it, I'm like I got to try to do breath work and meditate before I start work because that's what everybody says you're supposed to do in order to do self care.

And then I was actually talking to somebody that you guys have interviewed in the past Marissa Martino where she kind of, we did like, uh, kind of like a coaching session where she kind of, like, asked me about, like, all of these things that are like, okay, well, what is it that really makes you happy? What is it that, like makes you feel like, you're choosing yourself in the moment and actually meeting your needs? And it really like changed my perspective on like, okay, just because everyone says that you have to meditate in the morning is the one way to meet your needs, it's like, not the only way, and it doesn't work for me. So I'm going to try to do something else. I've kind of like been able to develop my own self care routine, just so that I'm in a better place to like, be able to do social media. Like I think about like how I want to be able to do this for a long time, I want to be able to do this sustainably, so like meeting my needs has been like a priority of mine and trying to, yeah, like complete the stress cycle, do the things that truly makes me happy, because the end goal is to like, be able to do this, like for a long time.

[00:43:26] Emily: Yeah. I think it's hilarious that I was like, “how do you do it?” And you're like, you, “you taught me.” But, but I think it's different for me because no, I don't think it's different for me. I'm going to rephrase that. I think what's interesting about hearing you be like meeting needs, like you told me this, is that for me, I have gotten really good and practiced at being aware of the stressors in my job, and preparing for them, and protecting myself, and then completing my stress response cycle when, when they're done.

And I'm not as practiced at that with the stressors that are involved in your job in social media, and so I think hearing you talk about, you gave me a light bulb moment of, Oh, you know what? It's still like, they're just different muscles to, to exercise and strengthen. And so like, I know how these principles work for me with my job, but I'm not as proficient at, exercising those muscles in, in what you do, because I don't do it as often as you do. I don't have, I haven't developed that like ability to see the drama coming from a mile away, like you probably have.

So I think that's a really a really great example of how context matters and we can be good at a skill in one context and we may still need to develop that skill in a different context. Generalization is a thing. And the other thing that I loved about what you said was this idea of what we call prescriptive enrichment of like the formula of what self care should look like versus descriptive enrichment, which is like, what actually meets my needs in this moment.

And you experienced firsthand that that prescriptive formulaic approach there's just a hard limit as to how beneficial that is, right? So this feels to me like understanding that nutrients exist, but not understanding how to get those nutrients.

So like when you're like. “I have to get ready for social media..so I got to exercise and meditate.” That's like, if we were to go back in time and try to help sailors who have scurvy and they just, badly need vitamin C. And we're like, but eggs have protein, and it's like, okay, but like, they don't need protein, they need vitamin C. And that, that feels to me like what you were talking about, like, yes, exercise is beneficial. And yes, meditation is beneficial. Although sidebar different neurotypes, get that meditative experience from different activities, so traditional meditation does not work for every individual because that was a whole journey I went on, back on track though. 

Yes, those things are healthy and beneficial, and also those may not be the things that you need in the moment to prepare yourself for braving social media or to recover from interacting on social media. So I, I loved to hear your, your experience because like, yes, of course that makes sense that like prescriptive self care is not going to help you as much as like really identifying what do you need in this moment and what activities can you do to meet that need? 

All right. At the end of every episode, I like to ask people the same set of questions. And the first one is, what are our observable goals and actionable items that people can take away from this discussion?

[00:46:50] Tiffany: Ooh. Okay. I think one, I think I, because we've talked about it a couple of times is like putting yourself in the other person's perspective, right? Whether if it's, maybe your social media followers, whether if it's like, the learner, like the dog or the cat that you're training, or maybe the client that that you're helping out.

I think always trying to put yourself in their shoes is a, is always a good 1 to keep in mind. And then the 2nd, 1 is. I really liked how you said it is just meeting the learner where they are at in their journey. And that applies to literally everything, whether it's your followers, the cat or dog you're training, or your, your clients.

[00:47:34] Emily: Yes, okay, I, I love that. All right, so the next question is, what is one thing you wish people knew about either this topic, your profession, or enrichment? Your choice.

[00:47:44] Tiffany: I think for me because like I said, like, I feel like there's so many parallels with like, enrichment, dog training, social media, running a business. Like, I feel like the 1 thing that I wish everybody knew is to like, know that, like, you are an individual and you are so unique. So like somebody else's advice is not going to work for you, somebody's strategy is not going to work for you. Like whether you're like, observing the individual in front of you, or observing your business, or observing your client, like just know that they are in a unique situation so that you really have to do the things that apply to them. And, it's okay if like somebody else's strategy, or enrichment idea doesn't work for you, because like, you're going to be able to figure out something else that works for you, or your pet.

[00:48:38] Emily: Yes, I love that. So much because yes, we see so many people be like, well, I tried that and it didn't work, and I've tried everything and they just feel shame, or they're beating themselves up or they're exhausted, and it's like, you don't have to, or like a keeping up with the Jones mentality of like, I have to do this because so and so did it, and it was effective for them. And it's like, cut yourself some slack, life is hard enough. Like if it doesn't serve you, it doesn't serve you. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I love that one. 

What is one thing you'd love to see improved in your field?

[00:49:10] Tiffany: I struggled a lot, like when I was reading these questions, I was like, I don't know, because I feel like I'm in the dog training world. But then I also feel like, but technically not because I'm also in social media marketing. But I think I'm going to come from it at like, I don't know, like a life, perspective, maybe, what I would like to see improved is just going, like doing things with like kindness. Whether if it's, I feel like I'm sounding repetitive. But whether if it's like running your own business, like be kind to yourself with your working or with your clients or working with like pets and stuff, just try to, be as kind as you can and, and give people the benefit of the doubt. Cause you never know, like it is that they're going through. And even to yourself, like, you're probably going through a lot right now, so give yourself some grace, and just, give everybody grace basically.

[00:50:07] Emily: Yeah, absolutely. I, I think that is such an important thing is like, we're just all, we're so hard on ourselves, and we're hard on each other, and there are certainly times when we need to stop harm from happening, and that may be unpleasant to the person causing harm. But in general, if kindness was default, and we only had to pull out, more aversive techniques when to stop harm from happening, I think the world would be a much better place. 

What do you love about what you do?

[00:50:40] Tiffany: Oh, my gosh. I really love what I do. I was telling my partner, like, literally this morning. I was like, I feel like I've always been meant to do this, like, like, just being like an entrepreneur, but also, like, making content, and working with clients, I feel like there's like something a part of me that's always meant to do this.

So, like, I really love being able to, create content for dog trainers, and helping like, spread information and educate the public about positive reinforcement training, and dog behavior and stuff like that. Because it has really changed my life, like I saw a couple of social media posts and then now I'm like doing a whole business, like, for, for social media for dog trainers so that's one thing. 

And then I also really love like working with my clients. Like, like you guys are like a good, good team of like, genuinely really good people who want to make the world a better place. And like, I could say the same for like all of my clients, they all want to like do their part in making the world a better place for pets and their people. And, and that's like, exactly like what I believe in. So, I think it's just really cool to be able to work with people who share like the same values as you.

[00:51:58] Emily: Yes. I, I agree with that whole wholeheartedly. I regularly think like “I did it, I got to the place where I'm working my dream job, and I have a dream team, and like we're in so much alignment and we get along and there's just no drama and like I did it!” So I feel those feels. Deep down in my soul.

What are you currently working on? If people want to work more with or learn from you, where can they find you?

[00:52:25] Tiffany: Yeah. So I'm really active on Instagram. It's @Pawsistant and so that's generally where you can find me and contact me. I'm currently working on, so I just finished like, doing like a master class on teaching dog trainers how they can figure out what types of topics are strategic for their business to post about and I really liked it. I had a lot of fun doing it. So, I think I'm going to try to work on more live masterclasses because. It was a really fun time to kind of like do it live and bond with the people that were taking the class. So yeah, stay tuned for that. I guess. I, I don't know what I'm going to do it next on, but I, that's what I'm really liking right now.

[00:53:12] Emily: Yay. I support you in that because I, there were so many people who were like, “I'm taking Tiffany's masterclass and it is awesome.” And I'm like, of course it is because Tiffany's awesome. But it just made me so happy to hear how many people were really getting a lot from your masterclass. So I, I definitely support you continuing that you've, you've got, you're onto something.

[00:53:33] Tiffany: That's awesome that they're telling you about it, so.

[00:53:36] Emily: Yes. Yes. Lots of good feedback. Well, Tiffany, thank you so much for joining me today. It was lovely to speak with you as always. And I appreciate everything you do for us and for the industry in general.

[00:53:48] Tiffany: I had a good time. Thank you for inviting me.

[00:53:50] Emily: You're welcome.

[00:53:51] Allie: What did I tell you? I love how learner focused Tiffany is and how much she cares about meeting the learner where they're at. And I think that's so important, especially when we're talking about something like social media where it's really easy to put out what you want to say and forget that there is a learner on the other side of that phone screen, or computer screen, or whatever it is, and that we still need to be meeting our learners where they are, even if we can't see them. And I just love how focused Tiffany is on that and that she has helped me to remember that as well.

Next week, we'll be talking about how to transform your relationships through good faith conversations.

Thank you for listening you can find us at petharmonytraining.com and @petharmonytraining on Facebook and Instagram and also @petharmonypro on Instagram For those of you who are behavioral professionals as always links to everything we discussed in this episode are in the show notes and a reminder to please rate review and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts a special thank you to Ellen Yoakum for editing this episode our intro music is from penguin music on Pixabay Thank you for listening and happy training!