#99 - Tiffany Holmes: Living with Pets with Behavior Challenges

Living with a pet who has behavior challenges is a unique experience. It's hard, frustrating, and full of tears all while being lovely, funny, and wonderful. And, what we've found, is that you can't truly get it unless you've lived it. Today's guest, Pet Harmony's own Tiffany Holmes, gets it. In this episode, Tiffany discusses the good, the bad, the ugly, and the wonderful of living with a pet with extreme behavior challenges. Whether you want to better understand what your clients or loved ones are going through with their pets or you want to feel less alone, you'll love Tiffany's story about the 4-legged love of her life, Petey.

You can find the full episode show notes here.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Tiffany: And one of the things I talk about like especially in group classes and stuff is keeping an eye on your dog's body language like after they do an activity so that You know if it calms them down or amps them up, and you can be smarter about when you give them these activities. And so, I've just had to be really smart about seeing what he's doing. I'll give you an example. There's this thing that he does that we call a drac attack, where he'll curl up into a little ball, and he'll eyeball you, like, over, like, over his shoulder like he's a Dracula with, like, a cape in front of his head. And so I was like, Oh, no, Petey's having a drac attack. And most of the time that means he hasn't had enough like sniffy time outside or he hasn't been able to dig a hole or something like that. The weather's been cruddy and he's just been cooped up a lot. So. If, if Petey's drac attacking it means it's time to, time to go for a walkie. 

[00:00:56] Allie: Welcome to Enrichment for the Real World, the podcast devoted to improving the quality of life of pets and their people through enrichment. We are your hosts, Allie Bender...

[00:01:14] Emily: ...and I'm Emily Strong...

[00:01:15] Allie: ...and we are here to challenge and expand your view of what enrichment is, what enrichment can be and what enrichment can do for you and the animals in your lives. Let's get started.

Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Enrichment for the Real World, and I want to thank you for rating, reviewing, and subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts.

The voice you heard at the beginning of today's episode was Tiffany Holmes. Tiffany Holmes, she, they, is a dog trainer and behavior consultant with us, Pet Harmony. She has provided group and private dog training in the bustling metropolis of Fort Wayne, Indiana since 2021. Tiffany believes that all relationships between members of the same species, or different species are an opportunity to learn from each other and grow together for the duration. An opportunity we should embrace, celebrate, and cherish. Tiffany's life as a trainer probably started the moment she brought home her scruffy and complicated bestie, Petey, from a shelter in Michigan. His struggles with the human world kicked her problem solving skills into high gear, and soon she was assembling a team with a trainer, vet, and veterinary behaviorist to help herself, her husband, Nathan, and Petey to all live their best lives. Burnt out on the corporate world after the pandemic handed her another layoff, Tiffany decided to put all of the lessons that life as the person of a dog with complex behavior issues provided to good use as a trainer. Tiffany is a Certified Professional Dog Trainer, Knowledge Assessed, a Fear Free Certified Professional, and an AKC Canine Good Citizen Evaluator. Tiffany, Nathan, and Pete share their home with a Ball Python named Artie and a Mexican Rosie Boa named Spencer.

I am so excited that Tiffany is here on the podcast to share with you her experience with Petey. She just amazes me every day, honestly, that she is living with such a complicated behavior case, and she adores him more than anything on this planet. It is absolutely amazing to hear her story, and I'm so grateful that she wanted to talk about it with all of you. And I just adore her as a human being as well. In this episode, you're going to hear Emily and Tiffany talk about how skills from other fields can help our field, why Explain Like I'm Five should be Explain Like I'm Your Grandmother, drac attacks from Count Dogula, Emily and Tiffany ugly cry together, and radical acceptance.

Alright, here it is, today's episode, Tiffany Holmes, Living with Pets with Behavior Challenges. There is a content warning for today's episode, there are discussions of death and behavioral euthanasia. 

[00:03:52] Tiffany: I have my entire, crisis kit with me.

[00:03:55] Emily: I should probably bust out something from my crisis kit because I'll probably be, when we start talking about. Taking care of special needs dogs, I might have some feeling. Where did my, there it is. Okay, I've got my squishy ball. Alright here we go, tell us your name, pronouns, and pets.

[00:04:12] Tiffany: I'm Tiffany. My pronouns are she, they, and I live with Petey the wonder mutt, a ball python named Artie. a Mexican Rosy Boa named Spencer. 

[00:04:23] Emily: Okay, and at some point you also had a snake with a highly ridiculous name like microwave or something like that, right?

[00:04:29] Tiffany: That was my husband's former snake Overhead Projector. And she was a corn, she's a corn snake. And she was the only snake I ever met that farted audibly. 

[00:04:38] Emily: Excellent. Excellent. I, I knew it was some kind of household appliance. I was just wrong about which one it was. It was an overhead projector, not a microwave. It's only a household appliance if you were born before 1980, I think. Awesome. All right. So tell us your story and how you got to where you are.

[00:04:54] Tiffany: Oh, good lord. Well, the short of it is that I got a mean dog and I needed to know how to help him. Petey came home in November of 2018. I had always rented, so I, I just never had a dog as an adult until I saw a beautiful little scruffer on I don't know, on the internet somewhere. And I wanted like, like a blocky headed, goofy goober.

And, and there he was. So, we brought him home, and it became evident fairly quickly that, number one, maybe he hadn't experienced very many things. like stairs, and fans in his 18 ish months of life. but it also became evident pretty fast that he he struggled with many things. And I got him into like group, group classes right away.

Don't ask me how we did that. I think it's just because he wasn't used to anything yet. We just got, got in there and, we learned a lot of skills and I learned about positive reinforcement and that kind of set us on our way to, to the VB, and meds, and all that. And then, then I read Canine Enrichment for the real world and I started focusing on enrichment and management, lots of management. And then, when we were, when we were in group classes, the trainer, who later became my local mentor was like do you want to be a trainer? And I was like, well, I work full time, and I teach yoga on the side, and I don't really need another side thing, so, appreciate you, but no. And then 2020 happened. Jokes on me, I didn't have a job anymore. So it's like, Hey, you remember how you asked me if I wanted to be a trainer? And so I started shadowing and I got in the mentorship program just stray kittening only. apply to people that you want as mentors, or did you also stray kitten me?

[00:07:03] Emily: I feel like I stray kittened you a little bit. I think there was some mutual stray kittening happening because you were like, I want you to mentor me. And I was like, cool. I want you to work for me.

[00:07:12] Tiffany: here I am.

[00:07:13] Emily: Okay. So there's two reasons that I want to talk to you today.

One is obviously there's, there's just a lot to say about Petey and so I feel like, we need to talk about Petey, but something that kind of plays into both why I stray kitten do you, and also why you've been so successful with Petey is because you are a really good example of like the people that, are like, I couldn't possibly like, be good at this job because I'm, it's a second career and I'm starting later and, and it's like, no, no, no, no, no.

All of the skills that you bring to our profession from your previous professions are exactly what are going to make you so good in this field because you're not starting from a blank slate. You're starting with like a wealth of knowledge and skill and information, that you have from other various things that you've done in your life.

And also, that skill and knowledge has helped you to be really good at just taking in the information that you've learned from your in person mentor, and from us, and just like immediately applying it to your life with Petey. So that it is related to the Petey conversation, even if it might not sound like it.

So, for the sake of our listeners, can you give a brief rundown, of your other job experience. I mean, you mentioned in passing that you were a yoga teacher, which absolutely plays into it. And we'll talk about that in a little bit, but can you talk about the, the other things that you have done in your life?

[00:08:44] Tiffany: I was always good at, like, reading and writing. It was not something that I needed, I don't know, that I needed to, like, get good at. It just was, I don't know, my brain, my brain worked that way. How it doesn't work is math. I went to college and I'm like, I've always loved animals and, you know, I was little, I thought it would be a vet or whatever. And like, my first job was working, working in a kennel, cleaning up after dogs and walking them and stuff. But, I got to college and I wanted to double major in English and biology, but no, no math. I can't do math. So my, my calculus teacher, which I tested into whatever was way below calculus. So I'd take all kinds of pre prerequisites. It was like, if you can manage to get like a D on your final exam, I'll, I'll pass you. I'll give you the D for the class, because I tried very hard. 

[00:09:46] Emily: D is for determination. 

[00:09:47] Tiffany: But it was a, it was an F and it just will remain on my transcript forever because no way I was retaking that. So I was like, welp, and I did my year of chemistry and I'm like, I'm not going to be able to do physics, or organic chemistry. And so, I met with an advisor, and they're like, there's this thing called technical writing, like, hmm. And technical writing married, like, science, and communication, and writing. so I did that, and I double minored in English and biology. And then, and then I went to grad school. So, I have a master's degree in scientific and technical communication, and about 17 years worth of experience as a tech writer. And I mostly worked with civil engineers, and electrical engineers, structural engineers, and software developers. 

What a tech writer does is takes technical information from a subject matter expert, and converts it into something useful. So, it's for a specific audience and a specific purpose. And so, we've, we've got to get and extract information from people who don't want to talk to you, and, and produce something useful if that is like I worked on, press packets for like local news stations when I worked for the Ohio Department of Transportation for civil engineers, like about the snow season, and the new tanks that they put on the trucks to put down on the, asphalt. 

Or I worked for software developers who were, who were creating software for collecting information and printing driver's licenses. And so I got to drive all over the great state of Washington to work you guys called DOL offices. So, the, the BMV rolling out training for people who did not ask for new software or want it. So, taking this really technical information from the developers who are Designing the thing, and also working on breaking their software, so I know how users use it, and then writing documentation for an end user and then helping, helping train them on that. So that that's what I did for most of my career. Okay

[00:12:16] Emily: Okay. And I'm going to be nice to you because I know you don't like saying good things about yourself. So I'm going to explain how your various experiences and backgrounds has actually made you really good at your job, because I'm not going to force you to do that for, about yourself. 

So, first of all, tech writing has really helped you, first of all, you're just a very good, clear communicator when we're writing, when you're writing content, and emails, and instructions, things like that. But the, the. I think the more important, maybe softer skill of that is learning how to distill down, like technical information or just passion talking, which you definitely don't work for anybody who just passion talk rambles for 30 minutes straight. I don't know who that could be, but yeah, yeah, it's a mystery. Who, who could I be talking about? Definitely not me. But taking that information, you can absorb highly technical, really dense, often rambling information, and spit out something that is simple and accessible for your learners, which makes you a very good teacher, and a very good behavior consultant, right? Because you have to meet your learners where you're at. So, being able to talk to clients and students, at, at a level that they understand and being able to distill down that information and do the kind of like, explain it like I'm five approach, is an invaluable and underrated skill.

[00:13:42] Tiffany: I like to say explain it like you're talking to your grandma. Like that's what I would tell, that's what I always told developers. Like okay, tell me this but pretend you're talking to your grandmother.

[00:13:53] Emily: Yeah, explain it like I'm five, is, is maybe not accurate because I think five year olds are better at like absorbing technology, so I like that. Explain it like it's your grandma. That's, that's excellent. So yeah, so that is, that definitely comes from that tech writing background. And the yoga teacher thing, also like teaching instructions, right? Just instructional design in general comes from that, but also the awareness of your body in space, and how your body is impacting your learners, and how your learners bodies are impacting them, and you, and learning how to breathe through things. 

[00:14:31] Tiffany: Boy did I learn a lot about all of those things from Petey

[00:14:36] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. But I think the reason that you, you were able to keep up with this learning curve, that was essentially a right angle is because you already had those skills from being a yoga teacher. And, and I, and I can say that because as a former yoga teacher myself, same, right? So, so definitely like that helped you.

So, even though you've only been in the field for about five years, your ability to sort of acquire and apply these skills has been rapid fire because you're bringing in those skills from parallel professions. And I, I just, I'm going to keep hammering this home because we have so many people in PETPro who tell us like, I can never be as good as you because I didn't start when I was in diapers.

And I'm like, I don't want you to be as good as me. I want you to be as good as you, because you bring things to the table that I don't, and could never bring. So don't try to be me, be you in all of your glory, right? Bring, bring what you've learned in other aspects of your life to the table for us. We need it.

So, this is why I stray kittened you because I could see right away that like you had some skills that would have value to our profession. But also let's talk about how they apply to Petey because Petey is a special boy.

So, before we start talking about like connecting the dots between previous job skills, helping you be the best dog mom you could be for Petey do you mind, talking through what Petey's, various issues are. 

[00:16:01] Tiffany: As far as behavioral diagnoses we've got generalized anxiety disorder, which, same, conflict aggression, which is an interesting one, and fear aggression. So, Petey when you think of, like, generalized anxiety or, like, anxiety in dogs in general, you think more, like, fearful, cowering, kind of behaviors. And with Petey, no, he's gonna, what I jokingly say is, Petey feels a thing and he's mad about it. Like, he's gonna post up, and, you're gonna get, like,pause, stiffen, , growl, lunge, snap, or muzzle punch, like, faster than you would like. 

So, he's got a lot of issues around, body handling, resource guarding, which I think like the body handling, resource guarding, conflict aggression thing all play off of each other. So, learning how to help him through just like basic husbandry stuff because of course he's also like a gray and white. So he's itchy, needs baths pretty frequently because he gets like greasy and stinky. Also he loves to get very dirty and that's fine. 

So yeah, so it was a lot to learn. It was a lot to learn his, his body language. Thinking about the environment, and not just like the kind of outside world, but even like within our, within our house. So when he feels conflicted about something, he's going to turn to aggression quicker than like trying to hide or anything like that.

So, know if, I don't know who, who coined this term, but like Ellen says, grumble and growl zones, like, we had to be very aware of like we live in a house that was built in 1920. So, it's not big. Hallways, stairways stuff like that is hard for him which kind of guided the skills as far as cues that we had to teach so we have to have a cue that means move, which means like move, move your body away from me. 

I see that you're laying at the top of the stairs. Based on our, our our history together, I know that you have a hard time there. Please move your body, get up, like, stand up. Please don't just stay there because if I walk past you, you might get mad at me. Just having to be really practical with, like, the cues and the skills that he learned. 

[00:18:45] Emily: So I think, Petey is a dog that in, in most situations, I would not recommend placing into homes. He is, he is not a dude who I would ever consider to be adoptable. 

[00:18:58] Tiffany: No, and I adopted him from a small no kill in Michigan. And, I, I don't know that they just didn't see these things in him. I don't know that they didn't have a way to evaluate, who he was. I don't know if he was just really shut down in the shelter. I asked a lot of questions. Has he ever taken a bath? What did he do? Like, I had a lot of questions and. Oh, well, I think he's okay. He lived with other dogs, and the one thing that she told me that I thought was weird was apparently he doesn't like being hugged. And I didn't ask a lot of questions about that because I thought, I don't know that a lot of dogs like to be hugged, especially by when they have to live in a shelter.

[00:19:45] Emily: Yeah. So to be clear, When I say Petey is not a dog that I would have adopted out, that's not to say that I expect shelters and rescues to know every behavior that every dog is ever going to possibly exhibit. That is impossible. The shelter evaluations that exist don't actually do a good job of assessing what dogs will do in the real world because sometimes dogs are, have a lot of challenges in a shelter and then they go into a home and they're like, I'm good now. I'm in the opposite, some dogs like their coping mechanism in a shelter is to just like, not, like toe the line. And then as soon as they get comfortable, they're like, I'm gonna tell you how I feel about everything. 

[00:20:22] Tiffany: That is really what seems to have happened with him because the longer we knew him, the more he just would show us his whole personality. 

[00:20:32] Emily: Yes. So for sure, not, not expecting shelters to know all that information. I think when they do have that information, then what they do with it is squarely on their shoulders, but but my, my point in bringing that up about Petey, not being a dog that I would consider adoptable is that, your ability as a new dog person, as a new dog trainer, as a new, everything, to give him the best possible life has been an extraordinary thing to watch. So, so, coming straight out of the gate, of like, being a pet parent to dogs with like a dog that I would never intentionally put into a pet home, has to have been quite a journey. So, can you share what that process looks like for you, and the discoveries that you made and how you help him live his best life while keeping everybody safe?

[00:21:21] Tiffany: Yeah, and one of the, one of the big concerns initially was like, it was really obvious that, I was his person pretty, pretty quickly. I like to say that I am, I am blessed by being Petey's familiar. And that, it was harder for him with my husband, Nathan, aka Big Man. reason I call him Big Man is because he is, he's a very large man.

He's just a big guy, 6'6 300 pounds, very handsome, very, like, deep, loud voice. Has to physically lean over to try to give this dog a treat. So, one of the first things we really had to deal with was like, making sure that Nathan felt safe. And I don't want to get into a lot of it, but like his, his childhood, he went, he's been through a lot. And some of that was really triggering and hard for him. So, so that's why management has been such a big part of our lives. And will be for, the, the rest of our life with Petey so, So, we started at the vet, and got got him on some meds. 

And of course, the first run is always going to be like fluoxetine. I don't know if that's the same everywhere, but it was here. And then we, we got in with our VB, who's wonderful, Dr. Rigtorink in Indianapolis. So, shout out to her. It's been a whole process with meds, which I think is probably a lot of people's experience. We've been through three different, like, primary, daily medications.

And he's on venlafaxine now, which is, I think, kind of a new ish, newer, it's an SNRI instead of an SSRI and then he does a daily, what do they call it, like an adjunct med, clonidine, which is also like a situational shorter, shorter acting thing. And then, know, just really getting to the bottom of, like, meeting his needs and making sure that he can do as many dog things as he can, considering he can't go everywhere. When I bought my house, I bought it in a neighborhood with a really cute little sunken garden, adorable park, lakeside in Fort Wayne, Indiana. And we can't walk there, except for in the summer when the sun comes up really early and we can go out at like 6am. And I do have some adorable pictures of him at lakeside at like 6am during the summer. But other than that, you know, it's the cemetery. We do have one sniff spot that's good. And we're super lucky. We've got a private, fully fenced, forested, dog park that you can rent by the hour. Shout out to Fido's Forest. So he gets, he gets off leash time there, and then, my husband manages nature preserves, so we get to get out and get down and dirty at the, at the nature preserves.

So, it was a lot of learning Petey's body language. Being really mindful of that, and making sure that he's got time to get outside, get dirty, dig holes, sniff around, see if maybe there's a mouse there, chomp on some deer bones, be a gross dog. And then see how of, that those normal daily triggers, like, just see him be able to process some of that information better than if he were not on meds or he had not had his, had his needs met

[00:25:09] Emily: You wrote really lovely blog article. Was it two art? Was it two? Was it a series? Yeah, you wrote two articles for us about how you created a sensory garden in your yard for Petey and I think that has been a huge part of it for you because Like you've talked a lot about how you're able to take him out of the house while still keeping everybody safe, but also I think a huge part of how you've been able to save Petey's life is by making sure that his home life is the best home life it could possibly be. So, can you talk a little bit more about I mean You don't have to completely rehash your your blog articles because we'll include them in the show notes But can you talk about how you manage your house and how you do enrichment in your house to, to like make him a happy little camper?

[00:25:55] Tiffany: Yeah. So I'm gonna be honest. I think, unlike many dogs, like when lockdown and everything happened, Petey really struggles when everyone's home. People moving, talking, it's, it's hard for him. And that's where I think 2020 is where a lot of our like bigger management kind of came into play as far as, the baby gates and stuff that we have downstairs. Like, sometimes we just have to spend time on separate floors of our house. Everybody has to know where Petey is at all times. Like, we have walkie talkies, so especially if we have people who are not Nathan and I in our house, like, everybody needs to know where, where Petey is. And we have this very specific way that I like to say when he's coming down the stairs, like, Coming down! So, we just have to, I, I think it probably, for folks who maybe have, like, worked animals, like, in protected contact at zoos and stuff, that's probably the thing I can, like, compare it to. Everybody has to know where he is, and then, as far as enrichment and stuff at home, know, he's, he's mostly staffy, pitty, but he's like this scruffy guy.

So, chewing is big for him a lot of foraging stuff, a lot of food based enrichment, a lot of shredding. There's currently like a giant Costco box in his room that I just like have been chucking treats into and he just dives into the box. He does like to like grab and pull things, like, but tug isn't really his jam sometimes with stuffed toys, tree roots. So he needs digging time and he needs time that he can like, I joke that it's like CrossFit for him because he's getting like his core strength, and he's like pulling on things. We have to watch that a little bit now because he did have to have a tooth removed. He's, he's eight. He's eight now. Seven? It doesn't matter. Technically he's a senior. 

And one of the things I talk about like especially in group classes and stuff is keeping an eye on your dog's body language like after they do an activity so that you know if it calms them down or amps them up, and you can be smarter about when you give them these activities. And so, I've just had to be really smart about seeing what he's doing. 

I'll give you an example. There's this thing that he does that we call a drac attack, where he'll curl up into a little ball, and he'll eyeball you, like, over, like, over his shoulder like he's a Dracula with, like, a cape in front of his head. And so I was like, oh, no, Petey's having a drac attack. And most of the time that means he hasn't had enough like sniffy time outside or he hasn't been able to dig a hole or something like that. The weather's been cruddy and he's just been cooped up a lot. So. If, if Petey's drac attacking it means it's time to, time to go for a walkie.

[00:28:57] Emily: I will forever think of, of Petey as Dracula now, like Dogula, that is adorable. Okay, I'll, I'll, I'll stop interrupting you, carry on.

[00:29:08] Tiffany: I think I'm done. I don't know. That's how, like, we just, we have to do a lot of shreddy indoor stuff, because getting him out and about means putting him in a car and driving him somewhere, and I'm not gonna drive him somewhere and just go there for like 15 minutes. Like, it's, an hour and a half, minimum if I'm going to get him out, so that's not that's not an everyday. It's not an everyday activity. 

And then, there is there is the garden now that it's it's getting into cold season, can hopefully it'll snow this year because we like to like build him a snowman and stick treats in it and he gets to knock it down. But yeah, I've got some plans this spring for the sensory garden, so stay tuned with that. I want to build like a, like a Petey tunnel with like some sticks, and some vining stuff because he likes, he likes to rub his body against the fence because there's like a vine that grows on it. He's like, think like a goat rubbing on like, one of those brushy things, and like, maybe I should buy him a go a goat brush, but I want to do like a little tunnel or something for him out there for, for the spring, summer.

[00:30:17] Emily: I love the idea of the tunnel slash goat brush and I mean my question to you is por que no los dos, right? Like do it all.

[00:30:25] Tiffany: I don't know, I've thought about like a broom head or something to the, to the fence to see if he would, like, rub on it. Because there's these, like, certain bushes at the cemetery, too. And I've got videos of him doing it, that he'll just, like, rub up against. 

[00:30:38] Emily: That is delightful and adorable. Okay, so I. I'm going to, I'm going to ask you some, like a harder question now, which is, just talking about like the emotional experience. So you mentioned that, like, adjusting to having Petey in the house was hard for Nathan, but also I think, one of the most profound things that I've heard Susan Friedman tell somebody that wasn't directly to me, is when Ellen was telling her about Griffey and all of Griffey's challenges, Susan asked her, have you grieved him yet?

And like, have you grieved the dog that you hoped you would get or that you thought he would get? And that, that hit hard because like, I've, I've had so many animals in my life that are not, I see that like they've, they have challenges that we can do a lot to help them, and also there's just a hard limit as to how much we can do, like the damage has already been done in some way, or, there's some genetic stuff that may be involved or whatever, right? So obviously, obviously Petey is a dog that you grieve, right? Because he's not, he's not the cuddle bug, teddy bear that we all wish every dog could be. So, can you talk through how you and Nathan navigated that, and how you've come to terms with that?

Because I think I literally just like half an hour before we started this, this podcast interview I talked to a colleague who felt embarrassed by the fact that, she has an animal who has been causing her damage and she felt, she felt some measure of shame about the fact that she was scared of this animal, and that she's a behavior professional who's scared of her own animal, and that she felt embarrassed that like she, she didn't read the animal's body language quick enough to not be, you know, all of the things, like, because we're professionals, we should never be in this situation.

So in addition to just grieving the pet, we, we wanted or we'd hoped to have we're also processing this sort of weird shame that happens. And you know, I think like that was just my the ten years with Brie, it was like I felt like I had to explain to people, I know that she is having a meltdown right now but if you now, that you know, uh, knew where we started and you saw how far we'd come, you would be impressed, instead of be like, you wrote a book about dog training and this is your dog? You know what I mean? So there's just a lot of layers of like emotional garbage to process when we're, when we're living with animals that, that have these challenges. So, can you share your experience with that?

[00:33:07] Tiffany: I'll try really hard not to cry. 

[00:33:09] Emily: You're also allowed to cry. 

[00:33:10] Tiffany: I've got I think I have a napkin or something my pocket. 

[00:33:14] Emily: Yeah, tears are okay. 

[00:33:15] Tiffany: I had a, I had a colleague who no longer lives in Fort Wayne who very early on told me that like, this dog requires like, radical acceptance. And that was definitely the case. I just had to accept him for who he is, and what he is telling me in the moment, though a lot of times what he is telling me is really conflicted, like, even just two days ago, he came over and I was sitting on the floor and he put his head in my lap and I was like scratching his neck and I'm, I'm, I am constantly doing consent checks with him and I'm kind of keeping an eye on like, I'm like, Like what his muscle tension feels like if I can't see his eyes.

His eyes are a big tell. So if I can see his eyeballs and his pupils are like, huge and his eyes are really round, like, even if he's asking you to touch him, that's not the right, that's not the right time. We can find a different way to interact and have a snack Um, but I was, I was petting his neck, and he I think I felt him tense up a second before I got, like, a growl and a muzzle punch. And I was like, okay, buddy, let's, can you go lay down up there? You alright? You wanna shake it off? Like, you, you live with these animals day in and day out, and you know their body language better than anybody, and they can still kind of surprise you. And you just have to accept that you may not always know what caused that in that moment.

Because otherwise you're gonna spiral and rabbit hole about every interaction you ever have with your dog. And then that makes it really hard to enjoy moments with them. Just for them being, being who they are. As for grief, I don't know, I don't think that my grieving process around who I thought he might be was that long.

I, at the time, was like teaching at CrossFit gyms, was teaching yoga at CrossFit gyms, and doing CrossFit, and I thought I wanted like a gym dog. Well, um, It was pretty obvious that Petey wasn't going to be, wasn't going to be a gym dog. having a dog who realistically, their life is more likely to end in behavioral euthanasia than a normal dog. And I'm not saying that's how his life will end. I have no idea how his life will end. But. I think that I have a certain amount of grief, um, uh, around that. and then it's like you love this dog with all of your heart and you, you want him to be around forever. And there's guilt where, like, I also allow myself to think about, what my life will be like with a different dog. so, you know, long may he reign. I will love him until I am no longer. but if something physical were to happen to him, if he required surgery for like, I don't know, a joint injury or something like that. He would survive the surgery, but I don't know that we would all survive what the recovery would look like. And so you just kind of hold, you just kind of hold that stuff with you day in and day out. and he's so special and I love him so much. He's my guy, but it's not easy. Loving him is extremely easy, but sometimes life isn't. Isn't always easy.

[00:37:00] Emily: yeah, it's the same, I feel the same way. I'm, I'm very fortunate that Brie passed because of, angiosarcoma, so I didn't have to make the hard choice with her, like, she, she went, her, her passing was, was pretty sudden. But, but it was very, part of the grieving process that has been so difficult with Brie, was that like exactly what you're talking about, the um, like I'll love her until the day I die, and also it, it felt like a betrayal to admit that my life was easier, and my budget was easier, after she passed. And then losing Bayou two weeks after her, and Bayou was a very special needs bird and had a lot of, of challenges. And his, His decline was slow and over several years, and and it finally, got to a point where I had to make a decision and the decision was hard to make, especially because it was two weeks after Brie died, but it was the same thing.

It was, it was hard to acknowledge. It was painful to acknowledge that my life was easier after they passed because I, I had to, I had to come to terms with the fact that acknowledging that my life is easier, and my household expenses are much lower, after they pass, I can hold that truth while I also hold the truth that I, I would pay that price again if I could have, if I could still have them alive, so, it is hard. It's hard because you love them and you, and you want the best for them, and you will do whatever it takes to make sure that they have the best life, and also it does take a toll on you. And when that caregiver burden is alleviated, then you have to process grief and guilt that you feel relief. Yeah, so, all right. So we're, we're both crying today and that's fine. 

[00:38:57] Tiffany: Join us for this episode where everyone cries.

[00:39:01] Emily: Where we're all sobbing, it's fine. Nobody can see us ugly cry. They just have to hear it.

[00:39:08] Tiffany: Sorry Ellen, you're gonna cry too.

[00:39:10] Emily: I had to get some tissues. Hold on a second. Okay. So thank you for being willing to be vulnerable and, and share that because it's such an important thing to discuss, like we, we need to acknowledge that it is very hard, and a lot of people who are put into this position don't really have informed consent when they get put into this position. And it's not just the difficulty of taking care of an animal who has these struggles, but also, yeah, this emotional complexity that goes along with it is, is not easy. So thank you for being willing to discuss that with me.

[00:39:45] Tiffany: I figured I'd cry at some point.

[00:39:47] Emily: All right. So let's let's, I want to pull out something that you said that's going to kind of like turn the emotional tides. So, one of the things that you said that I think is really important and we need to highlight more is that accepting the animal for who they are allows you to enjoy who they are as well. So, we've, we've spent so far a lot of time talking about Petey's challenges. can you, can you spend some time gushing about Petey, and talking about all the things that make him. 

[00:40:17] Tiffany: Oh my god, he's the most handsome. He's like this little cinder block with muppet hair. He's like a staffy goat hybrid and he's just so handsome, and he's such a smart, genius, baby. And he loves to jump and chase the hose. And I have the most hilarious pictures of him just look like his flaps going everywhere and his tongue going everywhere like jumping up and getting, getting the hose. And he's the bravest, most brave explorer. He just loves to get out in the woods and sniff every sniff and turn over every log and chase every chipmunk. He's a, he's an expert de squeaker er, and he'll do this thing where we, we have a thing, he gets the squeaker out, sometimes he chews on it a little bit, and then it's like, okay, I gotta, I gotta get that, so, that includes cheese. And so, sometimes he'll just get the squeaker out and look at me like, Am I gonna get some cheese? And he'll take it in his mouth, and he does this like prancey dance where he like, pulls his neck back, and he struts around with the squeaker in his mouth, and I'm like, okay, and then I'll talk him through like, what kind of cheese I have in the fridge.

Sir, today we have mozzarella pearls, let's go to the refrigerator. And we get our cheese. He also does dances around, like, things to chew on sometimes. And that's more of, like, his, his front legs go straight, like, bucks around. He's hilarious. He's very funny. Just, I love him the most. I love his scruffy hair. He's got the softest, like, velveteen ears, and then he has this weird little scruffy tuft that grows off of the, off of the middle of his ear. Like, I, I will never find another Petey.

[00:42:12] Emily: Yeah, I have to say, I, I had some, some serious life envy when I first saw Petey's picture because two of my favorite, like body types, like that I will heart melt over are the big, blocky baby hippo dogs, and also the scruffy dogs. So, to have a scruffy baby hippo, or as you called him a cinder block with Muppet hair, it is, that is like a double whammy of, of heart melty.

And so, I'm glad that I don't know Petey in person because I would probably get my face eaten off because I couldn't restrain myself and I would have to just like grab his head and kiss it and then promptly die. So, so it's a good thing I don't know Petey in person. 

[00:42:53] Tiffany: I'm the only one that can kiss his head, so I'll do that for you. Um, he can, my friend and Petey's former groomer can be alone with him, and pick him up, and groom him. So I just, I, that's one of the interesting things about him is that like he can be more predictable one on one. It's like when there's other people slinkity slinking around and he doesn't know what's about to happen, he's like 

[00:43:23] Emily: Well, thank you so much for delving in and, and discussing Mr. Petey Man. Wait, what'd you call him? Dracula attack? Dogcula, the cinder block with Muppet hair. Thank you for, for sharing his story and, and your, your life with him. Okay. As you know, I have sets of questions that I ask everybody at the end. And the first one is what are our observable goals and actionable items that people can take away from this discussion?

[00:43:51] Tiffany: Learn radical acceptance. I don't know. Like, learn who your pets are. Are and then think about what they need, or learn who they are while you're thinking about what they need. It, it makes, it makes those, those special moments more specialer? That's right, I know words. Actionable items. I don't know, everybody that listens to the show knows body language, but boy howdy is it super important. Okay, something that my brilliant, veterinary behaviorists told us, do more of what brings Petey joy. Do more of what brings your, insert animal here, joy. You can't go wrong.

[00:44:42] Emily: I think in general, joy is just an important thing to cultivate, because it is in short supply. And as in our team reading club, we're currently reading Hope in the Dark by Rebecca Solnit. And one of my favorite quotes from that book is that hope is a revolutionary act, right? Sorry, sorry. Joy is a revolutionary act. So I feel like, yeah, cultivate joy. 

[00:45:04] Tiffany: Do it. Cultivate joy, cultivate chaos, have a good time.

[00:45:08] Emily: What is one thing you wish people knew about either this topic, your profession or enrichment? Your choice.

[00:45:13] Tiffany: I wish that, I don't know, I guess I just wish that enrichment wasn't seen as like such a separate thing. That like enrichment is the thing. For us, for them, enrichment is the thing.

[00:45:27] Emily: Yeah. Enrichment is the thing is, is I think a good tagline, right? 

[00:45:32] Tiffany: There's my t shirt for the day 

[00:45:34] Emily: There's your t shirt for the day. All right. Excellent. yeah, it's not a separate thing. It's, it's how, how we all live empowered lives.

[00:45:42] Tiffany: mean the community aspect of PETPro has been such a huge thing, like since I came on to the team. When I was in the program It wasn't something that I was able to utilize, utilize as much because of like the way I was working and how not enriched I was at that, at that specific time. But yeah, just like community, and being able to be vulnerable, and lean on each other and let, let that be a little tool in your enrichment toolkit.

[00:46:19] Emily: in your defense, the kind of proto mentorship program that you were in didn't have, it didn't have nearly the amount of community support because I was like running it solo and we just didn't have the infrastructure in place. So the community aspect of PETPro is, is a vast improvement on, on previous iterations of the mentorship program. So. There is that. But yeah, yeah, I agree. Community is, is everything, right? All right. What do you love about what you do?

[00:46:45] Tiffany: Oh my god, Emily for the first time in my life. I get to say I love my job. I, I never I didn't get to do that when I was a tech writer. So, it's it's an exciting new thing what do I love the most? Hot dang. I don't know. It's just great. It's great to be part of the community. It's great to be leaning on each other, And circling back to what we talked about at first, I finally get the opportunity to like, utilize all of my skills. I'm the copy editor now, and I get to do blogging, and I get to help out with geeky technical stuff. Ellen lets me break things. It's awesome. 

[00:47:31] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. You, you are our professional program breaker so that we can figure out how to fix them. And then on top of that, you're just a wonderful mentor, and you support your students. 

[00:47:42] Tiffany: I try real hard. They're awesome. 

[00:47:44] Emily: Yeah, that's a big deal is supporting, supporting students who, who need that support. We all need support.

[00:47:51] Tiffany: Look, I'm not very good at being my own cheerleader, but I'll cheer any of them on all day, every day. 

[00:47:57] Emily: I mean, I feel those feels deep down in my, my bones. I, I definitely have also struggled with, having a harder time saying nice things about myself than other people. So I feel that. Okay. So people obviously know where to find you. The last question is, it doesn't really apply to you because the answer is here, Pet Harmony. That's where people find you. You want to talk about anything in particular that you're, you're working on or, or working towards anything that you're excited about? 

[00:48:27] Tiffany: I'm

excited. I get some self care office hours, so I might get to work a little yoga magic in there. I'm starting a puppy class at the shelter, and that's gonna be exciting because puppies. And I'll probably, will probably always have a shelter dog.

[00:48:49] Emily: Awesome. All right. Well, thank you, Tiffany. I appreciate you very much. Thanks for having this conversation with me today and I will see you. Like literally later today, I think.

[00:48:58] Tiffany: Love you. Bye.

[00:48:59] Emily: I love you. Bye.

[00:49:00] Allie: What did I tell you? Isn't Tiffany's story with Petey just amazing and so inspiring? Tiffany brings so many skills to her profession and her willingness to openly discuss this difficult topic is just so on brand for her generosity and vulnerability and I am so glad that she is a part of the Pet Harmony team.

Next week, we will be talking with Laura Vandernut Lipsky about trauma stewardship for pet professionals.

If you're anything like me, you listened to a podcast episode, and the little gremlin toddler in your brain is like, the world needs to know this! So, if that's you right now, and while you were listening to this episode, you thought of someone who could benefit from it, go ahead and text them the link to this right now. I'm tasking you with being an enrichment ambassador so that together we can improve the quality of life for pets and their people.

Thank you for listening. You can find us at petharmonytraining.com and @petharmonytraining on Facebook and Instagram, and also @petharmonypro on Instagram for those of you who are behavioral professionals. As always links to everything we discussed in this episode are in the show notes and a reminder to please rate, review and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts a special thank you to Ellen Yoakum for editing this episode, our intro music is from Penguin Music on Pixabay.

Thank you for listening and happy training.