#163 - Fears from Pets Past

Have you ever found yourself bracing for a repeat of everything that went wrong with a previous pet? In this episode, Emily and Veronica get real about how our experiences with past pets shape how we show up for the animals in our lives right now. From shame spirals to hypervigilance to carrying baggage from past cases, they break down why this happens, why it matters, and what you can actually do about it to meet the pet in front of you.

TLDL (too long, didn’t listen): 3 Key Takeaways 

1️⃣ Your feelings are valid, but your premise might be flawed - Acknowledge your emotional responses without letting them make all your decisions.

2️⃣ Preparedness vs. hypervigilance - Past experiences can make you a better caregiver when you extract the lessons and leave the hair-trigger fear response behind.

3️⃣ You don't have to erase your past to show up in the present - Curiosity, community, and compassionate objectivity are your best tools.

For the full episode show notes, including the resources mentioned in this episode, go here.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Veronica: Like with Sprite, when I remember we first adopted her and we didn't know anything about her background. She was just some random farm dog that was found and whatever we took. Her in and she was jumping all over coffee tables and destroying things.

And I'm like, oh, we're gonna have like all of these issues. And once we started getting some training, sure. But the minute that she would just destroy something, I'd be like, oh God. Oh God. Like this is going to be the worst. This is going to be some problem. It's okay. But also she's a dog. Right? And maybe I don't have every. Minute of every day where the enrichment plan is perfect all the time. So some days maybe she's bored and so she destroyed something. Okay. I don't need to spiral thinking I'm a bad pet parent. I am a horrible behavior consultant. That's not meeting my dog's needs. Like I don't need to go through all that.

It just is, and it's a one-time thing.

[00:01:05] Allie: Welcome to Enrichment for the Real World, the podcast devoted to improving the quality of life of pets and their people through enrichment. We are your hosts, Allie Bender...

[00:01:16] Emily: ...and I'm Emily Strong...

[00:01:17] Allie: ...and we are here to challenge and expand your view of what enrichment is, what enrichment can be and what enrichment can do for you and the animals in your lives. Let's get started.

Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Enrichment for the Real World, and I want to thank you for rating, reviewing, and subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:01:37] Emily: Our pets are incredible teachers they help shape us and give us experience that can help us with our current companions. And yet sometimes they also give us baggage. So today we're gonna talk about how experience with past pets whether it's traumatic or heartbreaking or just deeply stressful, fatigue inducing can bleed into how we relate to the animals in front of us right now.

And this matters because it shows up everywhere and it. It like informs your decisions in weird and sneaky ways that you maybe weren't even expecting. And I think I've been really open about how much, I love Brie for the rest of my life. I will love that dog. And she was my heart dog. And also she was a formal feral dog and had a lot of issues.

Like she had a lot of difficulty. Getting used to the human world. And so, and part of that was being an extremely dog selective and not safe around a lot of dogs. Like when she was at the sanctuary where I worked, she almost unli a few dogs. And so like I. I worked with her, we got really good. We got to the point where she could be in spaces with other dogs and totally ignore them.

She came a long way and made a lot of progress, but when Miley. Went through her big girl heat cycle and came out the other side reactive to large breed dogs. I just felt my stomach drop into my shoes and I just immediately felt like the sense of dread, like, oh no, here we go again.

Like, I have this puppy that was so pro-social, loved every other dog, and now I have to deal with this all over again and I don't wanna, I'm so tired. So like. Like been there, done that, got that t-shirt, and it does, it makes you hypervigilant, it makes you more of a helicopter mom I've spoken in or a helicopter parent, depending on what your gender is.

But I, I've spoken on the podcast before about how like the first few times she did that, I just picked her up and walked away. And after a couple of times of doing that, I was like, wait a minute, this isn't what I believe. I know how to handle this. Situation and manhandling my dog, isn't it? Like I know how to teach her better skills than this.

So I definitely had my moment as a helicopter parent and you know, of course it makes you second guess yourself and your capabilities and your suitability. Like, should I be in this industry or even should I have pets? Like that, those feelings, right? Or like just, I should know this by now.

I've done this before. Why? Why am I still struggle busting about this thing that I've done? And it's exhausting. So by the end of this episode, I hope everybody listening will understand. How our own learning histories with previous pets shape our risk perception and how we respond to perceived risks, feel less ashamed about the anxiety, the baggage.

Let's normalize that and learn how to work with your own learning history instead of trying to work against it or pretending it doesn't exist. Veronica, I know you've got experience with this, not just. Actually, I don't know if you have any experience with this, with your personal pets, but I know you have a lot of experience with this because of your work with insight and working with clients who are maybe struggling with their current pets behavior because of past pets behavior.

So what are some kind of like common themes you have seen in your work and, and how people navigate that?

[00:05:31] Veronica: For sure we've seen this. First of all, is there any parent had parent who hasn't felt this? At some point I would like to meet said person. If there's someone out there that is like, no, I've treated all of my animals as just unique individuals and I'm not carrying any baggage with me from old scenarios, I would love to hear more about how they manage that. But for the majority of us, yeah, we're, we're gonna fall into that boat because we, we human and we

human pretty hard most of the time. I do have experience as a pet parent for sure, and as a professional, a behavior professional as well. Being in veterinary medicine specifically, I think we. If you especially are someone that's working like in a general practice you're working hands on with animals, it can be as simple as I was once bit by a cat. Therefore every cat that I examine is going to be muzzled or otherwise restrained in a way that's excessive and maybe not necessarily appropriate for the cat in front of us. That's something that's super. Common, sadly, with parents in regards to their dog's behavior. A really, really common one that I see is. We've tried medications for our pets and it went horribly. Therefore, all medications are bad like

antidepressants, anxiolytics, and I feel those feels because when it does go sideways. It looks bad and the whole experience is bad for the animal and for the pet parent that's going through it. So I can see why they would believe that. However, it's not going to be true of every individual, every medication, and every combination of those. So as you were saying, having that narrow focus. Might limit us to doing that animal justice in that time and expanding our scope and remembering to be present in what's in front of us I think is super helpful with that.

[00:07:34] Emily: Yeah, I definitely. Can relate to those experiences as a vet tech because when I was a young vet tech and, and steeped in the, the arrogance of ignorance and youth, I used to get so frustrated with clients who were refusing to do lifesaving techniques for their animals because they had had. Bad experiences in the past was the anesthesia or with whatever it was that we were doing.

Even like we, I had some people who just refuse to do like flea and tick medication or heartworm prevention, which in Texas, if you're not, if your dog isn't on those, they will get diseases that can be life threatening. I just remember being so frustrated at them because like, okay, you had an an outlier experience with an animal, but now this animal is going to suffer and die because.

You won't get over it. And that was just a really unempathetic way to think about clients back in the day. And, obviously all of us look back at our younger, less experienced selves and think, wow, I would've done things so much differently if I knew then what I know now. I think the same thing, like, I've definitely had clients who just absolutely were terrified to take a prong collar off their dog or an eco off their dog or let their dog play off leash or introduce their dogs to new areas or, or whatever, because they'd had.

Traumatic experiences in the past, and they hadn't had people who had taught them how to transition off of more aversive or coercive techniques in a way that was safe and effective. People were really just dogmatic and pushy and then it went horribly wrong for them. And so like we just see that across in the veterinary world, in the behavior world, like everywhere we see this really common.

Pattern, which is, like you said, a totally human pattern. It's just, I don't even think it's a human pattern. I think it's a sentient being pattern. If you have a learning history and that learning history includes traumatic experiences, of course, those experiences are going to inform your perceptions and your anxieties and your decision making.

In the present, right? So it's not that anybody is bad or wrong or unreasonable when they have those feelings. You're just being a normal sentient being responding to your learning history like normal sentient beings do. But it does when you let those anxieties and that learning history drive your decisions.

When you make decisions based on fear instead of evidence, it narrows your perception. It, it gets you stuck in a lot of self-limiting beliefs. It makes you more prone to try to rush something that really shouldn't be rushed. And it, and it impedes your ability to. Observe and listen to the learner in front of you because all you're seeing and hearing is what happened in your past with a different learner, a different pet.

And when you're stuck in those old interactions with a pet who's no longer with us, you aren't able to be fully present for and with the pet who's actually in front of you right now in this moment. So we want to. Learn how to do really good solid evidence-based risk assessment so that it doesn't just turn into really unhelpful, counterproductive risk avoidance.

That constricts and restricts, yeah, restrict is a better word, restricts your life, your pet's life, your possibilities, and even the health and wellbeing and, and future of your pets. Right.

[00:11:30] Veronica: Absolutely. I think it's important what, regardless of whatever the scenario is to see with your eyes.

Like you said, like let's look at the evidence of what's there. Really paying attention to what you're seeing in front of you and what that evidence is showing you As opposed to looking back at the memory of whatever it was that is influencing your decision. Now, I think it's okay to remember those, like you said, they definitely have a place in teaching us how to respond to future situations, but it can definitely impede us if we're not cognizant of just being like, okay, this is the body language of this animal in front of me.

This is the. Actual evidence in terms of is it blood work? Is it something else that's telling us that this is its own situation and not like a pet I had in the past? We can see that a lot too, with my pet had this horrible disease thing and we spent. All this money on a workup and my pet sadly still passed away, and that might affect another pet that starts having similar symptoms.

And we start going down that route of we're not going to even try because the last time we did this, we didn't get anywhere when this can be a whole different thing. But we don't know until we do that workup and we're actually looking at what's in front of us right now.

[00:13:00] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. As you know, Veronica, we have a saying at Pet Harmony, your feelings are valid, but your premise is flawed, right?

So it's like you, you are afraid or anxious or whatever emotion you're feeling for a very good reason. Your feelings are rooted in reality and also your premise. The assumption that.

Everything is going to play out exactly as it did before, or even that because it happened to you once. It's a common thing that will happen with every animal in the future. That's, that's the reasoning that's flawed and that is getting in your way. And I mean, I get it. Like the, the thing about outliers experiences is that when people have those outlier experiences, they're really once in a blue moon side effect or reaction to something they immediately like go to the internet. And what comes up in their search is all of the other people who had outlier experiences and they don't see the hundreds and thousands of people for whom it was a nothing burger because it's generally very safe.

Right. And the, the example we use in the book is that like. I think, I can't remember because we did this research almost a decade ago, but I think when we looked it up at the time, there was something like around 200 deaths every year from people falling out of beds. But like in general, people aren't afraid to sleep in beds because there are millions of people who sleep in beds and, and don't fall out of it and die.

Right. But if you are one of the people who lost somebody because they fell out of their bed and died, and you go on the internet, you're gonna find the other 200 people who had that experience. And it's going to look like this is a common everyday occurrence and beds are the most dangerous thing on the planet, and nobody should ever sleep in a bed.

Right? And that. Happens so often that it makes it really hard for people to see that the experience that they had might have been a, a really uncommon experience. And then on the other side of that, when people do have really common experiences, like how many people have reactive dogs? At this point I just, I don't believe that there are any dogs who aren't reactive.

Like I'm sure they exist, but I just don't ever see those dogs. But like. Who, dogs who have never been reactive towards anything, ever. I don't know that those dogs exist because Miley's generally not reactive, but when she sees a big dog, she's got feelings and we have to practice our flight cue.

But so you have, when you have a common experience like that, and it genuinely is common. W there's this weird like opposite effect of like the things that actually do happen all the time feel really isolating because of all the shame on the internet. Why does the internet work that way? Why does the internet make these outlier things seem like the most common thing in the world and make the most common things in the world?

Seem like you are a bad person if your dog is experiencing this. Welcome to Tuesday event. Like I don't understand. Stand why the internet does this. But like there's so we have so many clients who feel so isolated because they had a dog with reactivity or resource guarding or separation anxiety or whatever their issues were.

And now they're so afraid of getting that same like shame and scolding and judgment with the new dog who maybe shows like really totally adaptive. Normal healthy guarding behaviors or fleeting ephemeral reactivity or a little bit of distress when they're alone and bored and it spends, sends them into a panic spiral of like, oh my God, we're, we're at this again.

We, all of our relatives are gonna tell us how horrible we are at dog owning, and we just need to assert ourselves as the alpha. And that's why our dog is having all these problems and like. I get it. I get it. Like it's so frustrating and also like these behaviors are so common, and you are not a bad pet parent just because you had a pet that struggled with that stuff.

This is really, really just a normal part of sharing your life with a non-human beast in an urban environment where life is hard for everybody. Right.

[00:17:28] Veronica: I remember as a pet parent having that, that comes up multiple times. Like with Sprite, when I remember we first adopted her and we didn't know anything about her background. She was just some random farm dog that was found and whatever we took. Her in and she was jumping all over coffee tables and destroying things.

And I'm like, oh, we're gonna have like all of these issues. And once we started getting some training, sure. But the minute that she would just destroy something, I'd be like, oh God. Oh God. Like this is going to be the worst. This is going to be some problem. It's okay. But also she's a dog. Right? And maybe I don't have every. Minute of every day where the enrichment plan is perfect all the time. So some days maybe she's bored and so she destroyed something. Okay. I don't need to spiral thinking I'm a bad pet parent. I am a horrible behavior consultant. That's not meeting my dog's needs. Like I don't need to go through all that.

It just is, and it's a one-time thing. I had that

with Preston too when I saw him on camera pacing a little bit after we'd leave him home alone and I'm like, oh my God. He's got separation issues now it's a new thing and I've had dogs with actual separation anxiety and my heart just sank. I'm like, oh my God, this is gonna be a thing and we've gotta start just everything.

And it's like, no, he's just pacing a little bit more. He is also old man. He is got cognitive issues, but it's not a full on separation problem.

So yes, it, it was so easy for me to have spiraled

in those situations. 

[00:19:05] Emily: I think on at some level we should be allowed to have those spirals, right? Like our feelings are valid and so we should allow ourself to have those feelings, but then we also have to process them, get through them, and then, turn our. Our rational brain back on and be like, okay, now that I've like had my moment, my spiral I can now like look at this more objectively.

Right? So like the, the first half of that is your feelings are valid. Feel your feelings because yeah, it is distressing when you see an animal start to do something that historically for you has meant a really. Emotionally difficult saga. Right? But then don't make decisions based on your panic spiral, get through the panic spiral, and then make decisions afterwards.

[00:19:58] Veronica: Absolutely, and I think it's super helpful to get someone else in before you decide what to do next, whether you have a. Human therapist therapy is always, I love therapy. Everyone should go to therapy. But if you're a pet parent with some challenge with your dog, find yourself a qualified behavior consultant. Get an objective set of eyes, someone who's going to look at things with a different lens, and also be compassionate and empathetic to the spiral that you're going through. Just like you said, giving you that freedom to be like you. You can still spiral, but also this. And what do we do with this information now?

I think a second set of eyes is, especially for pet professionals, is gonna be helpful so that we're not falling into the trap of being our own behavior consultants, which is not advisable.

[00:20:49] Emily: Yeah, and we do have both a podcast episode and a blog on how we can't always be our own behavior consultants. And it's really important to rely on each other as behavior professionals. And if you're not a behavior professional, then you definitely need the help and support of a behavior professional to navigate all of.

We can't do this on our own precisely because we lack objectivity. Right? And so it, it is helpful to have somebody like help us step back and say, okay, who's learning history is this, is this yours or your pets? What is this individual in front of us actually doing? What is the data actually say?

What is. The actual context of this behavior and how does that contrast from the context and the behavior of a previous pet that you're. That's like informing your panic spiral. Right? And it's not to say that like, well, this animal isn't as bad as your past animal. That's not how we think about behavior.

Everybody, every sentient being has their own journey and their own challenges and. The, their own path that they have to take through life. But those paths aren't interchangeable. It's not that we're not saying like, well, this pet you have is not as bad as the previous one. We're not gonna make that.

It's a logical fallacy called oh my God, why did I just blank on it? I literally, it just fell out of my mouth. Hold on.

Relative Privation, the fallacy of relative privation is what it's called. There we go. I got there eventually. Where we're not saying that your current situation isn't hard because it's not as bad as your past situation. We're not gonna make those comparisons, but we are going to. Look at them discreetly.

This one is totally separate and discreet from the previous one, so we're not gonna compare them in any way favorably or unfavorably, and we're just gonna observe the learner in front of us and figure out what do you need? What do I need? What support do I need so that I can support you? And what decisions are we going to make based on.

The evidence in front of us, not our fears from pets in the past. Right? We have a saying in Pet Pro, we make decisions based on evidence, not on fear. Because so many times we're making decisions based on fear or anxiety. And remember that anxiety and fear are not evidence. They're responses, they're valid responses to things that have happened, but.

I think it's helpful to separate out also vigilance from preparedness, and a lot of people have this sort of hypervigilant, mindset or stance. They live in a state of hypervigilance because of previous experiences. And so any little thing that looks, even a little bit like what they experienced in the past, they're like, ha ha, it's happening again.

Right? Like, like me with Miley having big feelings about big dogs, I was like, oh God, she's brie all over again. And that's not the same thing as being prepared. Bri helped me learn how to navigate those situations in a way that is sustainable for me, that is supportive of me and my needs. Learned what resources I can reach out to who my support system is.

Bri's. My experience with Brie really informed how I handle situations like that, so she prepared me for. Miley's baby, baby version of Reactivity. But that's not, I, I should, I should take and keep the preparedness that I got from Brie and leave Asai or let go of the hypervigilance and be like, I don't need to be hypervigilant.

That's not serving me. That's not serving Miley. When I'm prepared and I have my thinking hat on, I can make good decisions for both of us, and I can teach Miley skills that will help her navigate this instead of just panic, spiraling about like, oh God, we're here we go again. Right.

[00:25:02] Veronica: It's almost like past proofing. For today's situation, like just think of it as we were just proofing back then, right? Trying different scenarios and maybe under different circumstances, but by now, oh, we have learned and we have grown and it's just a muscle memory thing and it's information and there may be things that we regret about it, things that went well about it.

Either way, let's look at it objectively, it's just information and go

with what the situation is in front of us.

[00:25:31] Emily: A friend, colleague of mine, I was talking to them after, like immediately after Miley had her first big blowout response to a Norwegian el count on a trail. And I was telling them about the experience and, and I was just really sad about it and just. I don't know, just bummed that I was gonna have to go through all this again.

I was so, I was like, I'm so tired, I don't wanna do this. And their response to me was really helpful because they said, yeah, I get that. That's, that's real. And also, Miley is really lucky to have you because in less experienced hands, somebody might overreact to that and do something really.

Harsh or restrictive. Or coercive, but she's got a pet parent who has been through this before and knows how to handle it and isn't gonna blow it outta proportion. And I was like, wow. I was totally blowing out of proportion, but that was a very like loving and gentle way of reminding me that like, I got this, even though in the moment I felt like I definitely didn't got this.

[00:26:39] Veronica: And that's resonating for, I think for most of us, because nobody's perfect. And like I said, we're all growing and there will be things that we do that we're not super proud of, that we didn't handle well in the past. I think that's part of the hard thing about looking at a, a situation in front of you is those feelings, especially when you think about something that you regret. That was something that you could have done differently now. Okay, cool. Yeah, that stinks that we felt that way. Then look at what we get to learn about that now. That way we're not feeling that way. Everybody is on a growth trajectory. Like we're all hopefully better humans than we were yesterday even,

so we're all gonna continue growing at some point.

[00:27:24] Emily: How did. I'm so sorry. I forgot your dog's name.

[00:27:27] Veronica: Preston and Sprite.

[00:27:29] Emily: Preston was the first S Banksy dog.

[00:27:32] Veronica: He, yeah, well, he wasn't my first one. Toby was the name of the first dog I ever had, and he had separation anxiety.

[00:27:38] Emily: Okay, thanks. How did your experience with Toby better prepare you for the little mini version of CE banks that you saw with, was it Preston or Sprite? Who was doing the pacing? Preston?

[00:27:54] Veronica: It was Preston.

Yeah.

Toby had. Severe separation anxiety. And this is a perfect example of how badly I handled it back then because I didn't know what I know now. So especially looking back, I can think that was pretty severe where I could barely leave the room with him. And when I was gone from the house, neighbors were complaining about his howling and his crying.

And with Preston, it's like he's just going from room to room. Sometimes he gets a little bit unsettled, but he, right now he's in a whole different room sleeping and he is totally fine. And that happens regularly every day. So. Bringing it back to that comparison of, okay, yes, every separation anxiety case is different, but also I can leave the room and he's not destroying things.

He's not house soiling. He's fine. When I come back, he's fine when I leave. He's just a little bit more restless, which we attribute with the help of his behaviors to his cognitive dysfunction. Not so much only separation anxiety as a diagnosis, but that was helpful for me to have. As a comparison. And yes, it did bring back a lot of negative feels because of how things didn't go with Toby and how I wish they went. But I can't do anything about that.

I can't do anything about that other than learn from it and forgive myself for just not knowing what I needed to know then. And that's

okay. 'cause that happens a lot.

[00:29:29] Emily: Yeah. I get that. I had a dog in college. I didn't know anything about behavior at the time. I, I had a lot of really bad misinformation, but I didn't know anything real about behavior at the time. But we, this blue t coonhound just like wandered onto our property and we put up signs, tried to find the home.

We called the shelter. We called the local vet clinic. We were in a small town that just had one vet clinic. And no one responded. So we ended up keeping this dog. And now looking back, I realize that this dog had multiple anxiety disorders, really severe and. I just did everything wrong. I did everything wrong.

And I mean, not from a place of like anger or resentment or I wasn't even necessarily trying to dominate him or anything like that. I just didn't know how to support an animal that had multiple anxieties. I had no idea that veterinary behaviorists were even a thing. 'cause it was the nineties and there were like two veterinary behaviorists back then.

So like, I just didn't know, I didn't know anything about how I could have supported that dog. And same thing, like I look back and I'm like, now knowing what I know now, there are so many things, simple things that I could have done that would've made his life and experience so much easier. But I didn't know at the time and, for a long time when I was first a behavior professional, I was really avoidant of separation related behavior cases because of my experience with that blue tick coonhound. And I was like, oh no, it's so hard. It's so terrible. It's so miserable. I don't wanna deal with those cases. And then I learned, I learned things and I learned how to do it, and then I was like, oh, actually.

These cases are great. Like I, I really enjoy supporting people through these cases. But yeah, it's hard when you have an experience and it was not, the outcomes weren't what you would want them to be because you didn't have the knowledge and experience at the time to make the right decisions. But again, those learning experiences are also valuable because they teach you.

What you wanna change in the future and what you need to learn and who you need to learn from, right. And that, I think that is super, super valuable.

[00:31:58] Veronica: Absolutely. I think separation anxiety are some of the harder cases, but I also have a super, super soft spot for them

as a behavior consultant because of Toby, and so when I get families that are coming to me for any separation related behavior. I am immediately a little bit excited because I'm like, you've recognized it and you're doing something about it, which is so much more than I did back then.

I didn't know. And look at you and and yeah, it's sucky and it's horrible and you probably feel like everything is just wrong and you can't leave your house. But look, we, we can do something about it. And so I

get a little bit excited for it.

[00:32:41] Emily: Yeah, I definitely feel that way now. I didn't feel that way when I was a baby behavior professional when I was first starting out, but definitely, I I, I, that's exactly, you, you beautifully described how I feel when I meet those clients. I'm like, I know this feels impossible, but I've got a surprise for you.

Just wait. It's beautiful and I think, that. Like, it's really important to lean on community teachers, mentors colleagues if you're a behavior professional because like we were talking about earlier, you don't have. Good objective perspective when you're in the thick of it. And I think my situation, I think I would have come around to not like getting over my aversion to separation related behaviors earlier on.

If I had had more of a community to lean on and I had, I, there were more people that I felt like I could just be really honest about. My feelings and my fears and I did have some people, I don't wanna, I don't mean to throw my earliest mentors under the bus, but aside from my mentors, I really didn't have a community.

And there's just only so much time and energy I was willing to ask my mentors to give me for free because I knew that they had not elected to mentor me. I had just stray, kitten them home. And so like I. Trauma dumping on them was something I just really didn't wanna do. Right. But it's been really beautiful to watch how our community and pet pro navigates situations like this.

Because if it's something about, like a case, like their client is having a hard time, they can come to a case support session and, and I'll work with them. We'll go through the whole history and hash it out and be like. Let's take this all apart and look at it objectively and break it down and figure out what's.

What is actually concerning about this case and what are concerns that you have because of previous cases that you've worked on and you're just feeling like you're carrying that baggage from previous cases. And I always love being able to do that in a case support session and, and break it down like that.

'cause it's really helpful for people who maybe think that they're in over their head when really what's happening is they've just carried some baggage in from previous cases and, and they've totally got this case right. But then also when we have just people, struggling with their own pet's behavior and they bring it to the forums and they're just like, ah, I need a, I need a gut check on this.

Like, I'm just feeling like, I'm not doing right by this animal. It's, I always get a little teary eyed when I watch our community like rally around people when they put those posts in the forums and they're like, let's objectively look at what you're actually doing with your pet and how it's actually amazing.

You're not failing as a pet parent like you thought. Right. It's just so beautiful to see that. And every time I have that happen, either in a case support session or watching the community support each other on the forums, I'm like, I would've killed for an opportunity like this when I was first starting out.

It would've made my journey so much easier and it would've de-stigmatized all of the baggage that I was carrying. Right. It would've just normalized and like, I feel like normalization is half the battle, right.

[00:36:02] Veronica: I don't know how. People did it back then.

People like you that have been doing this forever, it's, it just seems profoundly lonely and hard. And granted not, okay, I'm not trying to age anyone saying like, it was like the caveman ages, but like internet and like groups and stuff like wasn't as big of a thing right when we were in high school and college. So the fact that we have the ability to network with other people on. Sure social media platforms is helpful, and I'm of course super biased for Pet Pro because that's where I found the biggest sense of community starting out as a behavior consultant. And I wholeheartedly agree. I love how everybody brings their objective opinion, but with such. Empathy, such compassion and understanding, because everybody knows they've been in that same boat.

Everybody has been in those shoes at some point or another. I can't stress enough how important it is to have a community, some how and how. It just helps you. Develop into a better behavior professional if that's what you are.

And if you're a pet parent, just having someone else that supports you

instead of those friends that are going to judge you or the family members that are going to shame you.

Not everybody's there in their personal growth. So I get that. That's a big ask, but if in case anyone needs permission to let some of those people go from their lives, that's okay.

You can do that and just fill your. Environment with people that are actually supportive in your growth and going through something either themselves or willing to be supportive of whatever struggles you're going through without judgment. I think it's hugely

important. 

[00:37:53] Emily: Yeah, and we also have both a podcast episode and a blog article about what to, how to deal with unsolicited advice and the, the judgment that happens because it's so common with both behavior professionals and pet parents, where like we are afraid. To share our fears, our anxieties, our traumas, our baggage, because the moment that we do somebody's there with a, well, you should have done this.

Or like, unsolicited advice or, well, that's what you get for, or, I would never do it that way. And like, like it's just so hard. And like, yes, you're right, that. On one level, social media has made our profession less isolating because there are more opportunities to get together with colleagues and, and other pet parents and, and talk about things.

But on another level, the internet is a terrible place. Like people are so mean to each other and judgmental, and even, even when it's well intentioned. I think this is the thing that's as harmful as the really toxic shammy stuff is the well-intentioned advice when people haven't asked nearly enough questions to know enough about the situation to be making good advice, to be given good advice.

Right.

[00:39:16] Veronica: Oh my God, yes. 

[00:39:17] Emily: And that's even, and that is also isolating because if you're like. If somebody comes on the internet and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm really struggle busting with this thing. I had this dog before that was blah, blah, blah, and I've got this dog now and it's starting to do it over again, and people are like, look.

Pattern games, right? It's like, you dunno nearly enough about this case to be just throwing out pattern games like it's a panacea. And then people go and they try that and it doesn't work, and then they're just more shamed because they're like, oh, I'm failing yet again because I tried this thing That should work according to experts on the internet.

And it's not. It's not solving my problem and I'm right back where I was with my previous dog or my previous client or whatever, and like, I'm a failure. I can't, it's just like I, I'm just so, I just don't, I don't trust the internet. Like I wish people would stop trying to get advice on the internet.

So like, it is, it's a double-edged sword because it does give us more opportunity for community and also are the communities. As supportive and well informed as they should be. Usually not.

[00:40:26] Veronica: Yeah, and I mean, don't get me wrong, this is coming from me who is barely existing on social media and doesn't really get involved in any of the things. I think it's important, I guess then to say it's the. The advancement of technology that allows

us to get together more often or either with people we otherwise wouldn't have access to, like from other

countries or from around the world.

So perhaps that is the, the thing that I think is more valuable because

otherwise I, I tend to agree the internet is the worst.

It's, it's so the worst.

[00:41:02] Emily: But you know, As much as I am cranky at Zoom, like all the time, zoom has definitely. Given us more access to people and resources that we otherwise wouldn't have had. So, and Zoom's not the only one, but it's the main one. Let's be real. So, so, yeah, I, I totally agree with you about that.

Okay. So now let's get into the nitty gritty of like how we apply this in real life. Like, what do we do about this information? So for pet parents, I think the helpful things to do are just name your fear out loud. It, you destigmatize it when you just say it out loud. So if you're like, oh, oh my God, this is exactly what my last dog did.

I don't wanna go through this again. Like once you've said it, you've released it like it's, it's out. You've, you've let it go by saying it out loud and then. The second step is to find a behavior professional who can help you separate the past from the present, and help you do an objective assessment of what your current pet is actually doing and what that actually means, what the real implications are, as opposed to what happened with your previous pet.

And, and then you can collaborate with your behavior professional to slowly and. Carefully build trust with your pet so that your nervous system gets evidence that it's gonna be okay. Your pet is a unique individual that's not just a carbon copy of. What happened in the past, and you've got this, you have the support.

You have the knowledge and skills and experience, and even if there are some aspects of knowledge and skill and experience that you lack, that's what your behavior professional is for, but you've got this for pet pros. If you start to feel yourself getting rigid about something or like you feel yourself fencing up or getting in knots about a specific case practice curiosity, I find it actually helpful to think in my head specifically like, okay, I need to get curious.

I'm choosing curiosity because it's an incompatible behavior with the knee jerk fear response. And so that is so helpful to choose curiosity when you feel yourself having that knee jerk. Oh God. Oh God, I can't handle this. I can't go through this again moment. And I think every behavior professional who's been around the block for more than half a second has had a case like that where they're like, I can never go through this again.

I've had several. Okay. The second thing for PET Pros to do is to. Collaborate with a mentor or a colleague. When your confidence feels brittle and you feel untethered instead of grounded, it really helps to get a, another trusted behavior professional to put their eyes on a case to help you gain some objectivity, because even if this is like the last nightmare case that you never wanted to live through again.

Having support to help you navigate that makes it so much easier and gives you so much more per perspective and alleviates the shame. And then the third thing for PET Pros to do is ask yourself again, I find it helpful to say, is this out loud? Am I responding to this case or to that old one? And when you can do that, when you can say that out loud.

I don't know. There's something about saying something out loud that demystifies it and, and kind of like, I don't know, like, I don't, I don't wanna, I don't for, for fear of sounding too woo, but like, it's almost like you release the energy and like you get it out of your, of your chest, right? So those are the things that I think are, are really helpful for pet parents and pet pros.

Veronica, do you have anything to add?

[00:44:58] Veronica: I first of all just want to say yes, saying things out loud, I think. Is helpful because it forces you to anchor yourself into the present. Like just, just by doing that, it forces you to be present in that moment, so that's super helpful. Another thing I think is just celebrating the wins because we often. It's just so easy to focus on the things that are going bad and the negatives, whether we're a pet parent or a behavior professional. So remembering to have those celebrations, even if they're small. Look, my dog didn't bark at whatever the thing was, and let's celebrate that. And again, that helps us be in that moment. And overall, I think just. Getting feedback from your community, the community that you trust, whether that's a trusted friend or colleague, is going to help with the remaining objective, seeing things with your eyes, what's in front of you as opposed to your memories or your feelings from the past.

[00:46:05] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. And community can also just help you normalize your fear or your anxiety because so many times we feel like we're the only person who has ever felt this way, and there's something wrong with us because we feel this way. But if you are in a safe community and you're like. Oh God, I'm terrified about X, Y, Z happening again.

Whether it's client or past pet, a past client or pa past pet, I guarantee you that everybody in that community who has been the, has been around the block for more than a second is gonna be like, same like it me. Like I feel those feels deep down in my soul. And so sometimes just normalizing and de-stigmatizing.

Is like half the battle. And I think also reframing because the fact that you're so anxious about it means that you care deeply. And I'm more concerned about people who don't care than people who care too much. So if you can reframe how you feel about your fears or your anxieties to be, instead of being like, this means I'm a failure to, this means I care deeply.

Man, that hits different, right?

[00:47:19] Veronica: Absolutely. And I think for those people that are hearing it from someone else, like they're hearing someone's experience trying not to be the fixer, 

just, I can just say sane. Yeah, I've been

there. That is usually not a welcome invitation to go through my life story and what worked for me. It's just sane.

Same, I feel.

[00:47:36] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. That's hard. I am, I have a neurotype that like my way of social bonding is to share a similar story. And sometimes at lands I have people like of similar Neurotypes who, for, who find that really helpful and other people are like, they perceive it as me, centering my myself, and they're like, this is about me.

Like, don't, and so I, I have found it really helpful to learn more about emotional CPR and how to just. Not share my story unless I know that it's somebody that would actually. Feel connected because of that. And that's been hard for me. 'cause that's my, that's like my default response is like, oh my God, you are not alone.

Let me share a similar experience that I had. Right? And but yes, learning ECPR from Valerie Bogey and like learning how to sit and listen and be like, Hmm, yes, same. And leave it at that has been a really powerful tool for me.

And I think like the final kind of thing that I have to say.

My final thought about this is that you don't have to erase your past to show up well in the present. One thing that I tell clients and students all the time when they're beating themselves up over something that they. They're ashamed about that they did is like there's no, there's no value to playing the shoulda, coulda, woulda game.

You did the best you could with the information and resources and bandwidth you had at the time, and now that you know better, you can do better. All we can do is move forward from this point. Right. I have, there are so many things in my past that I would do differently now that I know better, and I used those experiences to help me.

Muster empathy for people who are still doing that stuff.

[00:49:24] Veronica: Hundred percent. Yep. 

[00:49:26] Emily: Because instead of like, I think those of us who clean up the mess of that harm, like who, who are, who are who deal with the fallout of the harmful stuff can tend to be like angry and judgmental. Like, why are you doing this? Like, why are you causing harm?

But because I was that person in my past. It helps me to take a breath and go. I remember being that person and I remember making those decisions and I remember why I made those decisions, and at the time it made really good sense.

It helps me to be empathetic and understanding instead of angry and judgmental.

Anybody who's been listening to the podcast for more than a second knows that I still get salty and spicy sometimes, but, but I'm an imperfect human. But like, for the most part I view my past mistakes as opportunities to reach out to other people who have made similar mistakes with empathy and understanding.

So even my mistakes have benefited me and, and benefit others, right?

[00:50:29] Veronica: Absolutely love that.

[00:50:30] Emily: All right. So to recap, your past experiences matter. Your feelings are valid, but they don't get to drive the bus. They don't get to make all of your decisions for your current relationships with your pets and your clients. And remember that if you're having that moment, ask yourself. What am I protecting myself from?

Does the current situation actually merit the feeling, the the fears that I'm steeped in? Or am I just dragging my past baggage into this present situation? And then, as always, reach out to your community or your support system to help you navigate, get your, get yourself unstuck from that situation.

[00:51:14] Allie: I hope you enjoy today's episode and if there's someone in your life who also needs to hear this, be sure to text it to them right now. If you're a pet parent looking for more tips on enrichment, behavior modification, and finding harmony with your pet, you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Pet Harmony training. If you're a behavior or training professional dedicated to enrichment for yourself, your clients, and their pets, check us out on TikTok and Instagram at Pet Harmony Pro.

As always, links to everything we discussed in this episode are in the show notes. Thank you to Ellen Yoakum for editing this episode and making us sound good. Our intro music is from Penguin Music on Pixa Bay. Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. That helps more pet lovers and professionals find us so they can bring enrichment into their world too.

Thank you for listening, and here's to harmony.